SPEAKER_02 0:01

Hey Emily.

SPEAKER_03 0:03

Hey, Courtney Holland. Good to see your face.

SPEAKER_02 0:06

Good to see your face, dear. How are you? How's your Sunday?

SPEAKER_03 0:11

It's it's good. The sun is out. This will probably be the last sunny day we have here in Seattle for about nine months. Um it's like, you know, right at the tail end of summer, ushering in the autumn. So I'm happy for that. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'd love more sunny days, and we will have them, but I do love me some good autumn. Absolutely. I'm ready.

SPEAKER_02 0:35

I'm ready here. It's cold in the house, but it's hot as balls outside. And it's so annoying when it's fall, and every the everything's telling you it's fall, but then you're hot as balls outside. And that's do you remember?

SPEAKER_03 0:49

I think it was the first Thanksgiving that we had together um in LA. It was like my first or second Thanksgiving in LA, and we went hiking in Griffith Park that day, and it was 95 degrees.

SPEAKER_02 1:02

It was disgusting.

SPEAKER_03 1:03

And I thought, this isn't Thanksgiving.

SPEAKER_02 1:06

You're supposed to have leaves on the ground and be bundled up and it was well and that's why I always say the passage of time in Los Angeles is so strange because you have no seasons. Yeah. And actually, that's not true. And in the fall time, I can remember I would wear a peacoat in the morning to walk to the metro to take, you know, all the different locations I had to get to to get to Santa Monica, because you know, nothing goes straight to Santa Monica. Um course not. And I remember I was wearing a coat and I was thinking, well, this is kind of wintery. This is wintery. And then it's 80 degrees by noon.

SPEAKER_03 1:40

And yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, it's true. I and I probably said this on the podcast before. I was seasonally depressed in LA because there is no real change of seasons. And before you know it, 10 years has passed, and you're like, what the fuck have I done with anything?

SPEAKER_02 1:57

What was what was my plan here? Did I write it down? How am I already 29? Yeah. Oh my gosh. And that like that that load up the roller coaster towards your 30s, and you think it's the end of the world. At least I did. Well, I didn't think it was the end of the world, it just felt scary. And then you hit your 30s and you're like, oh.

SPEAKER_03 2:20

Well, now I'm on that road up to like 35, so I'll report that when I have that number.

SPEAKER_02 2:27

35, I don't know. Um so I am really excited to introduce our new guest, our guest today. She I met her at a child's birthday party. She is a the best friend doing at a child's birthday party. Yes, you know, sticking around. Um it was one of the many nephews and nieces. They've had a baby, so it's a grandbaby of of the parent of Jonathan's parents. Gotcha. And um, so they had a birthday party, and I went there and she was there. She's best friends with one of my favorite humans alive, aside from you. Um, and we got to chatting, and she has some pr she's done some pretty incredible mission work and like just super incredible. This woman.

SPEAKER_00 3:19

Hey girl. Hey, look at that. I did it. You did it. Following all the little steps.

SPEAKER_02 3:28

Look at that, and you nailed it. You just popped in here like ain't no thing. Hey. Show your spectacles. Yours are yours are nearby. We all have our spectacles. Yeah. Well, now I have to use two different. I've got the distance ones, and then I have got the bifocals. Um man. Because I am too cheap to pay for them all in one. So I don't blame you. I'm like, I get them anyway. So yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:00

But yeah. Tina, it's so nice to meet you. I know you too. Well, Courtney was just telling me how you guys had met. So I'd love to hear that story.

SPEAKER_02 4:10

So we were at a birthday. She was, she didn't know anybody. I barely knew anybody, even though it's part of my family. But then it was just a lot of people. And her dearest, longest, best friend is Stacy Fitzgerald. And she is one of my f one of my most favorite humans. Um, aside from Emily and myself, of course, because I I think I'm great. Um But we got to gabbing and and then she had um she'd asked me about when the work I had done at Virginia Tech for fundraising. And then we got to which we gotta we gotta talk about that girl. Now I'm like only crap, that's right. That was the main yes reason we will. Yeah. So then she started telling me about the work that she's done, uh, the mission work that she's done for lazy hope. And it's unbelievable. The things that she was telling me what she's done, especially going to Nicaragua. I mean, she's it's unbelievable. So talking about that wasn't the plan, Dina's got quite quite a that wasn't the plan.

SPEAKER_00 5:15

So let me just life is that wasn't the plan.

SPEAKER_02 5:18

Right? Isn't that how it always ends up?

SPEAKER_00 5:19

I mean, my husband, my children like pick any area of my life, and pretty much that wasn't the plan.

SPEAKER_02 5:25

That wasn't it, yeah. No one. So Dina has a bachelor's in sociology from UC San Diego and a master's of social work from the University of Denver, Colorado. Dina has worked uh for 15 plus years as a clinical social worker across many mental health settings, including inpatient psychiatric units, residential programs, and large outpatient clinics serving a variety of needs. My God, that is um Dina is currently a full-time educator to her children. She still works with small groups and individuals when her schedule allows, and she's a passion for travel and short-term mission trips, which is where her interest grew in ministering to women who have been trafficked. So that's where we're heading, ladies.

SPEAKER_03 6:04

Oh goodness, Dina Smiley, welcome to the podcast. Thank you for coming on and talking to us.

SPEAKER_02 6:13

I know I'm so and and I'm excited to hear you're just yeah. So, you know, where did you grow up, Dina? Let's start there.

SPEAKER_00 6:23

Yeah, I grew up in Southern California, like eastern LA County, just typical suburban Los Angeles. But I was you know, 1971. So it was so different than the LA of today, shall we say? Um gosh. Yeah, you know, just typical two kids. Like my parents are still married, all these millennia later, it feels like millennia later, decades and decades and decades later. Um pretty run-of-the-mill upbringing, I feel. Yeah, yeah. Nothing like phenomenal there. Just maybe it is phenomenal, probably, though.

SPEAKER_02 7:04

Isn't it always really? Yeah.

unknown 7:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:06

So how did you get started in ministry? How did you start yeah?

SPEAKER_00 7:11

Um, try to be really brief, but I was raised culturally Catholic, so kind of had a spiritual upbringing, but not super deep. Or it started in my late teens, early twenties. I feel like I had more of my choice of spiritual conversion, you know, being born again, shall we say, and uh feeling like, okay, so why am I here now? Kind of that question rises to the surface. Why am I here? What is my purpose?

SPEAKER_01 7:42

Right.

SPEAKER_00 7:43

Um, I've always loved to help people get to know people, be around people, be a part of people's lives and stories. And so I think that's what catapulted into just going anywhere, like just being open. So, I mean, my first mission trip, if you will, was to the jungles of Mexico in the state of Chiapas, which is not a super common area, working with the indigenous there. Um, you know, my trip after that was after college into no man's land, China, where they had never seen a foreigner in their lives. Wow. Um we were on a we were on a bike tour carrying, you know, literature and um, I mean, I can say it now, incriminate myself, but smuggling Bibles across the border from Hong Kong into China because Hong Kong at the time that I went in '94 was still under um, I guess, British rule before it'd been given back, right? And so we smuggled Bibles across in the just the saddlebags of our bikes. So crazy. Oh wow. Um that's cool, you know, meandering through China. And then as I grew up and, you know, got more education and just opportunity in different churches and and ministries, took, you know, high school groups down to Mexico. And then eventually it was a good friend of mine, she's a nurse, and she went on a medical mission to Nicaragua to the women of the House of Hope down there. Nicaragua is the third poorest country in the southern hemisphere. So very extreme poverty down there, which is why the issue of trafficking is so prevalent, because people literally will sell their children to survive or themselves, because that's they kind of then eventually learn, oh, if I'm starving, I can do this to not be starving. And so she went the first year and she was like, This is amazing. I kept picturing you here. Maybe you'll come sometime. And I was like, How about next time? So the very next year I went, and then I went three years in a row. And so we're a medical missions team. I don't have medical experience, but my social work, you know, I could be a support person for sure. And we would um approach women in the brothels down in Nicaragua to come to the medical clinic, um, which at first you're like, that's weird and scary and so strange and awkward, but um, their pimps will let them go because they need them to be healthy to work. Right. So they're like, yes, go free medical, like from American doctors because it's socialized medicine down there, and because it is so impoverished, it's not very good. Um so they definitely wanted them to come to our clinics and get all the checks and things, and then we could share just a different possibility for their life.

SPEAKER_01 10:56

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 10:56

Um, and the House of Hope is a residential ministry down there. Um, so they it's a three to four year uh stay for women and their children because a lot of them have children from their work and um can bring their children, and their children can go to school, get a uniform, be educated to hopefully not fall into the lifestyle. And then they get job training, all the trauma treatment, all the like they get everything, right? They get everything they need to completely 180 their lives, including when they graduate, they're given a home that's built for them. Um, and then if they stay out of the lifestyle for three years after graduation, the home is given to them like free and clear, and and they own their own home, which is to me so redemptive and such a again complete, complete 180. So then that led into sorry, I'm just gonna keep talking. Like I moved, we you know, COVID happened, the world exploded, we were in California, and we were like, okay, well, yeah, that was great, it was fun, but um, I don't think we want to continue to have our children in this environment. So we saw it, well, where could we go? Um, and I on some level literally Googled, you know, most conservative states in the US, and then days of sunshine, cost of living, you know, all the other things that you kind of want to go along with that package. So Tennessee definitely rose to the top. Um, and my husband's in law enforcement, so then he figured out the job side for him and found it an amazing department to come to. So we packed up in 21 and moved out here. 2021 was the year of my 50th birthday. Being closer to Stacy, my very best friend, was like, okay, you know, I'm turning 50. Like, what are we gonna do? Because it felt, you know, monumental there. Absolutely. Um, so she found this little Airbnb down in Pikeville, Tennessee, which Pikeville, you know, no, it's on nobody's map, Pikeville. Um, and got to talking with the owner of the BMB because it was an equestrian BMB and Stacy's a horse trainer.

SPEAKER_01 13:15

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 13:16

And so we're just like inquiring about horse things and all this stuff. Well, it turned out that summer, um, the woman, her name is Raina, who owned the BMB, was going to be leading the horse section of this camp. And she was like, Oh, maybe you guys would want to come because they needed volunteers. So horse camp for kids who are at risk of, I mean, potentially being trafficked, but just at risk, right? At risk is a lot of things.

SPEAKER_01 13:42

Right.

SPEAKER_00 13:42

Um, yeah, it just means, you know, they're in a different socioeconomic place, a lot of them being raised by family members, lots of broken homes. And so wanting them to have an awareness about for our ministry, grooming, what grooming is about in this, you know, in this arena of of human trafficking and what does that look like? And so um Stacey couldn't make it that summer, but my kids and I connected with her and kind of really sight unseen said, Oh yeah, horses, kids, like we'll be there. And she let us stay in her BMB that week for free. Cause I'm like, I don't know anybody. We just moved here. Like, where would I stay? And she's like, come and stay in my BMB. I'll block it out for that week. And me and my three kids came. They were nine, eleven, and thirteen at that juncture. And we show up at this camp the first day and just jump in. So I'm leading a group of kids, and my oldest is helping with the horses. My youngest is a camp, my younger two are campers that year because they weren't of age to be volunteers. Right. And so um by the end of the week, meaning meeting Joe Haggard, our uh co-founder, who's now our executive director, um, you know, at the end, as I just would ask questions throughout the week about Blazing Hope and the ministry and like what curriculum are they using with the ladies and hearing about all the things they did, we kind of turned to each other and she asked me to join what I considered joining their board of directors. And I was like, that is so funny because I was gonna ask about that, which that question being on a board of directors. I've never, I don't, I mean, like, what does even that mean? A, but B, I just yeah, wasn't thinking about asking that, but something on my heart, I mean, we were just so like in sync. Oh so I went through the process to be um become a board member and joined that fall of 21, and then just last summer became the chairman of the board for Blazing Poe Grant here in Tennessee. Yeah, see, that that was the other part of like that wasn't supposed to happen. Yeah, the chairman, my goodness, my goodness, D. And it's been amazing. And I started, you know, our our previous board chair kind of stepped down all of a sudden and for, you know, just her own reasons, life, family, all kinds of things. And I was like, oh, oh goodness, so who's gonna take her place? And I just, I it was just like, darn it, I'm gonna have to step in. I just, I just knew, you know, it's one of those like, mm, okay, yep, okay. So I at first I was like, I'll be the interim chair, right? Uh interim. Like it's temporary until we figure out what's supposed to happen. But probably by three months or less in, I was like, nope, this is me. This is what I'm supposed to be doing for however long this season is going to be. Wow. And so now my kids, especially my daughter, because she's super into horses, you know, we've volunteered for six out of the 10 years that the camp has run, which is phenomenal. And we are going on our 11th year as uh the ministry that we are, which in smaller nonprofits, six years is about the breaking point on average for a small ministry like we are. So we're so excited that we're heading into year 11. Congratulations.

SPEAKER_02 17:17

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 17:18

For someone who's never heard of Blazing Hope Ranch, what would you want them to understand first and foremost? Like tell us a little bit about the ranch itself and what it is and what it's doing.

SPEAKER_00 17:29

Yeah, yeah. So Blazing Hope Ranch is a faith-based ministry that redeems, restores, does uh beautiful things for women who have been in human trafficking. Um, it's completely free. So it's on on average a two-year residential program. They get uh the same thing as the other ministry, every kind of care they need, medical, trauma, physical, job training, everything, right? Everything, all the things um to do a 180 with their lives. And I think the unique thing about blazing hope is we're not that first, you know, the the woman, they tend to be younger girls get rescued. We're not that ministry. All of our women are over 30. So they've maybe been out of the lifestyle to some degree for a time, right? But still all the underpinnings that maybe got them there are not settled, not restored. And so they they're still flailing in the world and struggling. And they eventually come to us through a network of referral, you know, agencies that we have developed, and you know, they get vetted for fit and all the things, and then they they join, they join the ministry, and it's just they are each on their own journeys working through all the phases and stages that they need to come out kind of victorious in the end. And same thing, they get job training. We've every uh graduate that we've had, we always get a donation for a car so that they have their own car. We help them, you know, find housing that's affordable because right now, you know, housing is expensive for the best of us. Right, you know, yeah. So we whatever, you know, they all come in and a lot of them get different job training, you know, just so many things. So that's like the the big umbrella of who we are and what we do. And we we're on a ranch, so we bring in equine assisted learning to their journey because horses are a mirror of our emotions. Absolutely, right? They they are up in their emotions all the time and they they pick up on your energy and whatever's going on with you. And so it's a beautiful partnering of women and horses to restoration, what the horses show them about you know where they're at at any given point. Um, so that's another super wonderful, unique thing about us. And then our prevention is that kids' camp that I was talking about. So we use a curriculum that was developed in the Philippines, and it's the story of a caterpillar who doesn't know it's going to turn into a butterfly. And it it, you know, takes its journey, and and and there's um the dream thieves that come and tell it lies, and there's all these things about this map, and you know, it's this this quirky little story, but each portion of it has a lesson for these kids. So they they learn that through blossom, then they go to Bible time, they go to craft time, and of course, the favorite is they get to be with the horses. We bring so cool the horses down the mountain for the week, trailering nine horses down for these kids because it's 40 kids per camp. So 80 kids a summer. And um, they get to, you know, learn about the horses again, mirroring, you know, the kids get to go pick their horse and eventually get on and get led around the facility. And um, it's so cool. And then we teach them, you know, know who you true friends are, right? Um, you are unique, valuable, and worthy of love. You know, there's just so many, each day has a you know, choices have consequences, right? Good and bad. So again, just teaching them these little bits of nugget learning to that hopefully it will help them identify if they're being groomed by somebody.

SPEAKER_03 21:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 21:49

To to recognize, oh, no, you who your true friends are. True friends give gifts and expect nothing in return. So we also emphasize that because groomers will give them. The sun, moon, and stars, right? But eventually it's for something in return.

SPEAKER_03 22:06

Right. Yeah. So how do you teach kids of that age range, like eight to thirteen, that are coming to the cans? Like teach them without scaring them about potential groomers.

SPEAKER_00 22:18

Well, the story of Blossom helps a lot, right? The caterpillar that turns into a butterfly. So we can, through that story, we can weave in, oh, choices have consequences. What choice did Blossom make? That, you know, how did that choice work for Blossom? You know, you kind of you start with the story, because they're like into the story, and then you go, Oh, have you ever had a time where, you know, you made a choice and what was the consequence? So you connect them to the story and then eventually bring it and with the horses too, right? Choices have consequences. If you do something that the horse doesn't like, it's gonna pin its ears and you know, whatever, or it may nip at you, or it may just be like, uh, I'm not interested in you. I'm gonna go here, right? You know, so we relate everything to just everything that we're doing. You know, the the day um know who your true friends are, they typically will make friendship bracelets, right, as a symbol of that lesson. So it's just full of object lessons that connect to what we're saying with the older kids, the 13-year-olds, you can be a little bit more like, you know, because I usually work with the oldest girls, the 13-year-old girls. Then you can kind of say, okay, girls, I mean, they're 13. You hope they um have had the talk with their parents, right? And so they know things are changing in their bodies and and different things happen and what that's all about. And so then you can get a little more um clear around, yeah, that if someone's giving you a gift, but then there's a a string attached, that's a warning signal, right? That's a red flag. Find out more about that or ask your parents or ask someone you trust.

SPEAKER_03 24:05

Yeah, you keep talking, you keep saying um the choices that we make. And yes, every single moment of our lives we are do, you know, faced with choices like do I take a drink of water right now, this or that? But I know myself, I tend to overthink a lot of my choices instead of listening to what Courtney always refers to as the still small voice within you, which we all have and we all know. So, do you teach them that as well? Like the thinking choice or the knowing choice.

SPEAKER_00 24:35

I mean, yes, yeah, of course we do. Because, you know, to me, yes, the still small voice, we also talk about like our gut instinct. I feel like that's the same thing. So our gut instinct is also the set apart spirit, being like, mm, I don't know, you know, right, uh-huh, something's going on. Think think through that better. So we definitely try to get them to realize like they are capable of all of these things, right? And we believe in them. Even that, you know, you are unique, valuable, and worthy of love. Some of the kids that come to that camp have never heard that before. Or they don't they don't believe it in there now, right? Maybe things are going on in their lives, their families, their school, whatever, and they they're not too sure about that. And so we want them to have a renewed assurance of that that no, we you are, we love you, and we see how unique and how valuable you are. And we get repeat campers too, right? They some of them start at eight and go till 13, and then the beautiful thing is now they can take a year after 13 and then they can come back as a junior volunteer. Oh, wow. And so now we have junior volunteers because these kids cannot get enough of what is going on in this week, right? It's the highlight of their year for a lot of them, their words to us, you know, the horses, of course, the you know, and it's free, free camp. So it's eight to two. We give them breakfast and lunch, uh, and and all the accoutrements, shall we say, that go along with camp. And so it's it's so cool to see these kids light up. You know, they get greeted every morning. Hey, how are you? We're so glad you're here. Just those little things, right? Of noticing, absolutely noticing them all week long and partnering with them and cheerleading for them and the accomplishments that they make on the horses, or a craft that they make, or they tried something they've never tried before in that week. Right. And how cool and fun that is, and then taking that with them. And then it culminates on Friday. They stay later. Um, we get a sponsor for dinner, and their whole families are invited. So the families come, they get to meet the horse they've been riding all week, they get to see some of the crafts they made, they get to meet their leaders and things like that. And then we have a presentation for the family about you know what we've been talking to them about. Um, the kids perform skits and sing songs that they've learned all week because, you know, we sing camp songs for sure and things like that. And so it's just a super fun celebration. And then we give out awards to to certain standout campers that have, you know, really gone the extra mile for their co-campers or, you know, just those selfless acts of kindness that we see kids do and kind of the most improved, you know, someone that maybe took a risk that was really scary to them, but they but they did it and they're so proud of themselves, and we want to celebrate everything, everything. So then it culminates with that Friday evening, and there's a slideshow of all the pictures all week because on Wednesday they get to paint the horses and we do a horse parade and we cheer for them. It's so fun. Like the whole week is, I mean, it's it's a lot and it's hard and it's hot. It's summer in Tennessee, it's always so hot, but it it's like just the best thing, too, right? You come out just like, oh my gosh, like yeah, this was always worth it. Always worth it.

SPEAKER_02 28:20

Absolutely. Well, tell me, I'm I'm remind me where so the the children that do come, um, they're at risk. And are they low are they in Tennessee? Are they from Tennessee? Are they from Yeah?

SPEAKER_00 28:32

They're all from Tennessee. So we do the camp in Ray County and Bledsoe County. Ray County is where the ranch is located outside Dayton. So that's kind of like serving our county. And then Bledsoe County just came because if you know Bledsoe County, you just, it's like if you know, you know. They just needed it. They needed it, and that area needed it. And so the first years that we were trying to get campers, the biggest way that we were were able to get them is putting up a flyer about the camp at the local McDonald's.

SPEAKER_02 29:08

Oh, genius.

SPEAKER_00 29:09

And so parents would see this, you know, free camp, da-da-da-da. And then call and get all the information. I mean, they're, you know, they still have to like register and there's waivers, there's, you know, we daughter I's and cross our T's, but that's how you find kids. Yeah. We come to the camp, you know, they're at McDonald's, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:30

Well, yeah, I mean, really.

unknown 29:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:32

So I'm curious at the end of the week when the parents come and you kind of talk to them, do you give any literature or anything to the parents? We do as well. Yes, we do.

SPEAKER_00 29:42

We give we give literature to the parents, absolutely. And we get, you know, they get kind of a presentation about things. I mean, I think from the beginning, even when they're doing the paperwork, they have an idea of what this is about. It's not like they're blindly sending their kids to this random free horse camp. You know, a little bit. Some might. But but there is some awareness of like, hey, you know, here, here, who is here's this umbrella ministry, right? Blazing hope. Here's who we are, here's why we're doing this camp, here's what it's all about. Um, and so they, yes, we give them literature as well as the Ray County coalition always come to camp and they're in charge of letting them know all these different kinds of services that are available in their county for all the things, you know, whether it's rehab services or domestic violence services or whatever all the kind of social services, not DHS, but like just, you know, the services that are available to the community for free and reduced. So they always come and set up a table there as well to offer services in case the families need that or just more awareness of what is available to them. Um, because again, a lot of grandparents, you know, raising kids and family members and things like that. So um, so yeah, so now it's it's almost word of mouth. You know, we're we're out, we're there. They know all the kids talk about it to their friends, invite their friends. You know, the local churches now know about us in the camp being there. So it's, you know, it's not a chore anymore to get kids to come to this camp. It's super easy. And we probably run a wait list most summers now. I bet.

SPEAKER_02 31:25

Gosh, I was thinking there's gotta be a wait list because I well, I love I while you were speaking and the talking about horses, because I'm a wannabe horse girl. I know we talked about we both were wannabe horse girls when we were younger, and like I love them so much. And I heard a statistic, and I I'm not gonna quote it exactly because I cannot remember exactly, but like girls that were into horses always had generally would have a strong, a wonderful father figure in their life and also lose their virginity very later in life, like not early. Isn't that interesting?

SPEAKER_00 31:58

Like I can, I mean, I can probably speak to that. So the second year of my master's program, DU, now it's like a big full-on, you know. I was like, man, I wish I could go back and do that section. They started an animal-assisted therapy component of the graduate school of social work. So there's a just the human-animal bond, right? That's that's a real thing, measure, you know, animals in therapy just do so many things, just animals in general, right? I mean, they're that unconditional love. You pet them, they lower your blood pressure, right? They're just they do things for us physiologically, emotionally, spiritually. So I can definitely see why those girls, because they're they're developing a certain confidence, they're learning the skill, their time is occupied. Like they're about the horse, they're about their training, they're about getting involved and being and doing. They don't have time to deal with dumb boys that want what they want.

SPEAKER_02 32:57

My language, but yes, horse.

SPEAKER_00 33:00

Yes, so they don't. So I I could definitely see the father figure part, that's interesting to me.

SPEAKER_02 33:06

Um and I may be getting it backwards or but I remember because I uh would have loved to have been a horse girl. I did do horseback riding when I later when I was a kid, but it was never what I really wanted was to live at the farm and have my own horse. And my horse would know me, and I would know my horse. And we would speak the same language, even though we didn't speak like the connect, the connection I felt to horses. I just, and I'm always like, ah, but um I think that's why I fell in love with Stacy because she's a horse girl, like the realest, real, real horse girl. Yes, horse whisperer, man. Yeah, freaking horse whisperer. She was just at that horse thing this past, she sent me a video of her barrel racing. I'm like freaking horse.

SPEAKER_00 33:49

Me too.

SPEAKER_02 33:50

Yeah, so good. But it's the I I just love because the the connection with animals, um, the bond with animals. I I think that people that bond with I don't I'm gonna just talk out of my tush real quick. I feel like kids that bond with animals succeed better in life. I don't know if that's true.

SPEAKER_03 34:11

That's true. There's there's a connection between humans and animals because probably because we are animals as well, but we have you know kind of removed that from ourselves because we have built this world that detaches us from the natural world in so many ways. But yeah, I agree that having animals when you're a child, take learning how to take care of them, respect them, love them, feed them, make sure they're healthy is very important growing up. I think it makes you a better individual all around. That's my personality.

SPEAKER_02 34:47

That's I mean, you well said, Emily. Snaps for Emily. That was but I and I'm like, I like animals.

SPEAKER_00 34:54

It gets you outside of yourself, right? It's like, oh, there's this other being that depends on me and needs my care, love, and attention that you give it and then it comes back to you tenfold. Yeah. So the reward is very great in in stewarding animals, right? Uh of any kind. Well, you know, so yeah, that it all ties in. It all ties in.

SPEAKER_03 35:17

It's a responsibility. Um and yeah, like you just said, Dina, it takes us out of ourselves and reminds us that, yeah, it's not just about us.

unknown 35:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:28

Right. Um, I I was fortunate to do some equine therapy a few years back, and I do say there is something to it. It was very Emily was incredible in my recovery. Yeah. Um, Dina, I had cancer, and that was I'm part of this cancer support group that Courtney actually signed me up for. I was not part of a support group until she came out and pay them a lot of money.

SPEAKER_02 35:50

They didn't want her, but I was like, please!

SPEAKER_03 35:53

Oh shoot, like this this lady needs help. So she signed me up with the support group, and one of the classes that they offered was equine therapy, and you could go out to the ranch and spend a day, and I've done it. And uh yeah, I walked away just feeling like the world is actually not a bad place because I was in such a bad place. But even just the few times that I've done it, every single day I walk away and I my eyes are opened and the sky is bright. So absolutely. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:22

See a tiny part of my previous long time ago, whenever that was in my late 20s, I volunteered at an e-coine therapy organization for a few years and did that with with all their writers too. So yeah, it's just it all culminates in now, right? I did equine therapy years and years ago, and I, you know, my master's all the things, all the things that I've done culminate to here, but but if you would have told me, you know, way back then this is where I was gonna be today, I would have been like, I don't think so. I mean, you know, no.

SPEAKER_02 36:59

I'll be busy in China smuggling Bibles.

SPEAKER_00 37:01

I'll know what I'll be doing, but I'll be busy somewhere else doing something else. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:06

I really just want to refer to you, Dina, as the bubble the Bible smuggler.

SPEAKER_03 37:10

I just think that well, yeah, I I'm gonna change pace here a little bit if that's okay with you guys, because I do want to let people know just how incredible the work that Blazing Hope is doing and bringing light to this situation. Because I think a lot of people, especially here in the United States and maybe just North America, we hear trafficking and we think of possibly third world countries where that is happening, and it's usually younger women and they're being trafficked for sex. But that is not the case at all. I mean, yes, that happens, but globally, and I pulled up some statistics.

SPEAKER_00 37:48

Um, I've got I've got my sheet of statistics too. So we can compare notes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:56

Um, but what I had found, um, 27.6 million people are forced into labor um just about every year. And that is a uh 2.7 million increase from 2016. And nearly four in five victims of commercially sexualized exploitation are women and girls. 3.3 million children globally are forced into labor, though. Um and in Tennessee specifically, 1,696 cases have been identified through the hot through its hotline since its inception. Um Wow. So, and it's people don't just traffic from the United States, going elsewhere. It is, it stays within your community. And generally, it's not just like a stranger in a van. It's gonna be like familial trafficking, intimate partner, a family member, an employer, a romantic partner, somebody that you know. And Dina, you can speak to this grooming. I read about um there is, I think stalking and fishing too were two of the other terms that I had read uh that you know, go into this where stalking is stalking one person specifically that the the the groomer is trying to find the get this one person, and then fishing is throwing is casting a wider net out to a community, you know, and it's modeling jobs, this or that, or you know, get quick rich, that sort of thing. So I just wanted to mention that because I I think it's important for people to know that this is happening in your community right down the street from you. It can be happening to anybody, and it doesn't have to, it doesn't necessarily have to be a socioeconomic thing, although that probably is a much higher percentage, but it can happen everywhere.

SPEAKER_00 39:50

Yes, and definitely the socioeconomic, I think that's important because yes, you tend to think, oh, if you're upper middle class, you're at less risk. Um, and then like you said, you think of, you know, what comes to mind when I think of tra even when I think of tracking, you know, the red light district in Thailand or something, right? Those kinds of places, but it's it's not that, and it's not yeah, the socioeconomics. So when I was even just learning more about trafficking before I went to Nicaragua and before I became involved with Blazing Hope Ranch, um, the church that I was attending at the time had a heart for trafficking um ministry as well. And so they brought in certain specialists and experts just to educate, you know, those of us who were who are wanting to get involved. And one of the stories, or some of the stories, but one of the stories that she told, you know, affluent straight A type students, um the person that took this particular or tried to take this particular female at the time, hanging around high school sports games, right? Like watching the basketball games, watching, like just being in that environment. And this the story that she told us. So two girls, you know, they're just there chatting it up, whatever. And one is talking about how she really wants to get a tattoo, but her parents, you know, she's underage and they're like, no, you know, no, you can't get one. So of course it's like, oh, parents, they're lame, you know, that whole thing. The dude's behind them, and he's like, Oh, you know, girls, I couldn't I couldn't help but overhearing. Oh my god. You know, oh, that you want to get a tattoo. Yeah, you know, my uh my buddy, he does tattoos. I can introduce you to him. You know, he's amazing. Of course, you can put it somewhere where your parents won't find it. Like, hey, let's go, let's go contact him or let's go see him. Like, we'll we can go right now, right?

SPEAKER_01 41:48

Kind of in the car, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:49

Yes, and and that's that's it, the car. So all the stories that she told us, and there were just so many, and after a while, you're like, you know, it's don't get in the car. Don't it's I mean, the minute that that teenager person, the minute you get in the car, that's where it's like the statistics go really bad for being recovered or rescued.

SPEAKER_01 42:16

Oh, geez.

SPEAKER_00 42:16

Really bad.

SPEAKER_01 42:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:18

So even just that awareness was monumental, you know. You know, because we're all taught when we're little kids, you know, stranger, danger, the white van, hey, you know, we all cheese. Hey, kid, want some candy. It's not even that. It's not even that. It's it's the little nuanced things that smarter study your kids and they pray in this moment of opportunity. Like, hey, I'm this cool guy, I'm gonna get you this tattoo that you really want.

SPEAKER_01 42:47

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 42:48

Oh my goodness. And that could be the entry to trafficking for a young girl. And so that's that's not socioeconomic, that's just opportunistic.

SPEAKER_02 43:00

It's totally opportunistic, yeah. Yeah, looking, watching, listening.

SPEAKER_00 43:04

Looking, watching, listening. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 43:07

Yeah, it's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 43:08

Like wow.

SPEAKER_03 43:10

I had also kind of looked up some recruitment tactics that people are using, and the internet is definitely central. Um, and again, they're like hunting and fishing there. Um, but uh approximately like 32% of sex trafficking victims reported the trafficker started as a romantic situation or some side kind of proposal, maybe a tattoo, getting a tattoo, fake job opportunities, modeling opportunities remain very common. And then familial trafficking, like parents trafficking their own children, like you said, to you know, exploitation for money because times are tough. And then I also found some few myths, and I I'm saying this for parents and everybody else, you know, who has children or younger people in their lives. So one of the myths is trafficking is kidnapping. No, that's not true. Most victims know they're trafficker. Trafficking requires crossing borders. Again, no, this can happen in your hometown, even in your own home, that no movement is legally required. Third one is only foreign nationals get trafficked. No many US citizens are trafficked on US soil. Fourth myth is victims will ask for help. Nope. Because fear and shame and threats to their family, trauma bonding, and manipulation stop them. And it's just sex trafficking. Nope. Labor trafficking is more commonly global is more common globally. Sex trafficking gets more um US media attention. Yes. So and then there were some warning signs. So here are some things to look out for with people in your life. Uh that someone else always speaks for the person. So it's scripted or rehearsed answers. Like if there's a young person and an older person, that older person generally will be speaking for them. They're not free to come and go where they work. Um signs of physical abuse, malnutrition, exhaustion, medical neglect. They have no control over their own ID, phone, or money. Um, sudden lifestyle change in a young person, like expensive clothes or a phone that they can't normally afford, or they have an older quote unquote boyfriend or person in their life, um, or they're disappearing for stretches of time. Tattoos or symbols, often that that's a trafficker's brand on them. Oh my god. Uh they become fearful, anxious, they avoid eye contact, submissive around a specific person, they're confused about their location or time, or they're working excessive hours for little or no pay. So sorry to bring y'all down, but I just felt while while we're talking about this, get that out there so people can be aware. Because I was not aware of that. You know, again, I had it in my head that though this doesn't happen much here on US soil, it does. And it's not just sex trafficking, it's all kinds.

SPEAKER_00 46:06

So I'm gonna add in something else because again, a big awareness piece. Hello, sports fans. The Super Bowl. The Super Bowl is one of the highest kind of trafficking peaks in our country because you have everyone coming from everywhere. You have so much money coming to these games, right? Because it's affording a Super Bowl ticket is not, you know, your average Joe is not going to those games. And then, and then what they do and what they want while they're in this experience. So it's huge business around big sports games, championships, all of that, because there's money, there's access, there's you know, supply and demand kinds of things. So those, I mean, I I can't even thank goodness my husband is not a sports guy, but had he been, I mean, I'm like, I I boycott it for lots of reasons, you know, anymore, but but the trafficking part, I'm just like, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 47:09

Well, and I also believe uh that the Super Bowl is also the uh peak for domestic violence. There it is. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 47:17

Yep. I mean, because there's a lot of drinking, and then depending on the outcome of the game, if your team lost and you're drunk and high, and then you're pissed off about it, guess who's gonna get your wrath? Yeah, it's super prevalent and yeah, really high at that time as well.

SPEAKER_02 47:36

My blood pressure's rising just thinking about this stuff. It's so intense.

SPEAKER_00 47:40

Yeah, all I mean, all these things are just again, the awareness, right? So I can't even remember it. What was the name of that movie that was out just a couple years ago that was a trafficking, anti-trafficking or about trafficking movie? You know which one I'm talking about? So gosh, I shouldn't have brought it up because I can't think of the name.

SPEAKER_02 48:00

Oh, Sound of Freedom?

SPEAKER_00 48:02

Sound of Freedom. That's one.

SPEAKER_02 48:05

Let's see, it's a drama about Tim Ballard.

SPEAKER_00 48:07

Yeah, so that I mean that movie did so well, it raised, you know, whatever millions of dollars. You know, there's a part of me being in this work that was like, okay, it was a movie. It raised awareness. I mean, I guess, in theory, but I would rather have not seen the movie and put the money for my ticket towards a ministry like Blazing Hope, right? Versus I don't, you know, I didn't look it up. I I'm only guessing. Did you know, did that movie in raising all their millions and awareness, did they give any of that to any of these ministries? I don't mean I don't know. My guess is no, but don't quote me. Hopefully they did. Hopefully, you know, hopefully within whoever all those production people that made all that money. I think because some of them probably give charitably to organizations like this, but yes, awareness. And and so it was such a catch-22 for me being again in this ministry and this work, because it was like, yes, it's it's a movie though. So then a lot of people were like, Oh, wow, you know, it raised awareness, but then they didn't know what to do with seeing that the knowledge, yeah. The knowledge, right? And so it's like, here we are, here, like blazing hope, and people like us. Like, here we are. If you want to put your money where your mouth is or or walk the talk, talk the walk walk the talk, yeah, you know, like come come join a ministry like ours. Like we literally run a on donations, like right, we're we're a 501c3. So the women pay nothing, everything that we do is raised by donation, as well as on the backs of volunteers, right? We we are volunteer run. We we have small staff that get paid that work with the ladies, obviously. You know, they're trained, all that, but everything beyond the direct work with the ladies is volunteer and uh and then even paying our own employees, it's all donation-based. So some of these things, it's like, how do we channel even the awareness?

SPEAKER_03 50:23

I would like to ask all of our listeners and viewers hey, if you've got a dollar, five dollars, ten dollars, feel free to donate to Blazing Hope. But you guys also have something coming up called the Hoot Nanny for Hope, which is your annual fundraiser. So tell about this.

SPEAKER_00 50:39

Yeah, it's such a fun time. So, you know, what is a hoot nanny? I mean, I don't know. You know, it's like a hoe down, but not because it's it's this casual thing. So it's not a stuffy, you know, where some of some fundraisers have nothing against them, right? It's like black tie and you pay a thousand dollars to get this gourmet meal and yada yada. That's not us. You know, it's it's it's free to attend. We get table sponsors, and you come hear about what we're doing, you know, partner with us. You hear about what our year was like, we hear about, you know, the ministry moments, you hear about the things that are happening with the ladies, you hear about our vision that we're casting for the future and the growth that we hope to see. So that you might want to partner with us. Yes, give us your dollar or your five dollars, you know, the whole buy me a cup of coffee um perspective, but also join our monthly support list because the monthly giving is like our keeping the lights on money. Yeah. So we love to have monthly partners because then we know, oh, we we have this much monthly income right coming in. That keeps us stable to continue to do the work, to continue to have the camp, to continue to cast vision to grow more and do more in this arena. So this year we're having um some campers who are now volunteers sharing about that whole piece. Like I said, um, one of the girls, she's phenomenal. She is our um oldest and longest camper. She's coming, and she's now in college going to major in equine assisted learning kinds of things, right? So, of course, like the how incredible. So good, so good. And then, you know, another another male camper that went through a bunch of years of camp um is coming to share too. So it's just such a cool night to connect with the heart of the ministry, the heartbeat of the ministry. We have an auction, we have a meal, we have a little um my kids call them squeak. Like we have, you know, the music. Why am I blanking? It's not country, but it's like, you know, that we have a cool little band com and play. Like a bluegrass band? Yeah, like kind of like bluegrass or whatever. I don't know who we have this year, but yes, we always have like live music, and so you can dance if you want to. And it's it's just so fun. It's just so fun. Um, that's great. And that takes place on October 16th. October 16th, yes, at Brian College in Dayton, Tennessee. Are you still selling tickets for that? You know, well, it's free to attend, but I'm not sure if we're full.

unknown 53:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 53:30

So they would they would go to the website and look at the Hoot Nanny and see if we still have chairs available. Eventually, we always fill it. So that's yay. You know, we had to actually, we were at a um a beautiful wedding barn venue, but we outgrew it. Like we didn't, there wasn't one big enough. That's fantastic. So now we've partnered with Brian College and we use one of their dining halls and we completely transform it. You know, we decorate, we move it to make it have just a whole different flow for the evening, and it's super fun. Yeah, so we've we've outgrown. So we still we've filled last year, was our first year at Brian College. We're coming back this year. We filled it last year. I expect us to fill it again this year. Awesome.

SPEAKER_03 54:14

So if you're in the Dayton, Tennessee area on October 16th, go to blazinghope ranch.org and you can see if there's still chairs available. You can attend the Hoot and Nanny on that evening at 6 p.m. at Bryan College. Uh, you can donate, which would be incredible. And please spread the word.

SPEAKER_02 54:36

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 54:38

Yes. If you listen to this, share it with someone. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:41

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 54:43

Yeah. And we have a few more things to discuss, but while it's on the top of my mind, real quick, I just wanted to throw out a few numbers to everyone. So you can reach the National Human Trafficking Hotline at 1-888-373-7888. You can also text 233-733-BRI, which is a help and information. Uh, you can also call the DHS to report anything. Their phone number is 1-866-347-2423. You can always dial 911. Um if you think something's happening, it's best not to get yourself involved to immediately call someone else, like the police if you if you suspect something because you also don't want to hurt yourself or put that person in any more danger.

SPEAKER_00 55:34

Yes. One of the mottos, yeah. One of the mottos is if you see something, say something. Okay. Right? If you're even if you're unsure, better to say something and potentially save someone than for them to go and check something out and and realize it's not, you know, it's nothing suspicious. You see something, say something.

SPEAKER_02 55:54

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 55:55

Always.

SPEAKER_03 55:56

Dina, is there anything else you want to tell us today about Blazing Hope or doing or anything else we should be aware of?

SPEAKER_00 56:04

Yeah. I mean, I think again, one of the things that we went through kind of simultaneously with hitting our 10-year marker is that we are the first gold standard safe house in the state of Tennessee. Um, and that was a big accomplishment for us. So it's, you know, it's this safe house um oversight organization coming in and fine-tooth combing everything that we do and how we do it for these women and putting their gold stamp of approval on our ministry, right? So not a small thing, it's a big thing, especially for how small we are in terms of, you know, some ministries out there are just, you know, big, big things that do big things. You know, we can name big ministries that we know of, whether it's in trafficking or not. Um, so for our little ministry to become the first gold safe house was just like such an affirmation. Is that the right word? An affirmation to us, affirming us and like, wow, we we are doing what we think we're doing, and we're doing it to the highest standard. And so for these ladies, and it's so worth it to them, and to uh I mean to us to provide to them, but they're worth it, like they're worth it, and we're so happy that you know that we can say that about our ministry. That's like, yes, gold standard, thank you, gold seal of approval. Yeah, yeah, that is really incredible. First in Tennessee, so brava to us. When did this happen? When did that last year last year? Okay. Last year, last year when we hit as simultaneously as we were coming on our 10-year anniversary, it's like we also achieved that gold standard as a safe house. Yeah. Yeah.

unknown 57:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:56

That's really incredible.

SPEAKER_00 57:57

Um, I mean, I can, you know, I could talk on and on, but that was a big like I yeah, we could stay here all another level of like where this ministry is, you know, we want to do it to the fullest and to the best because these women absolutely deserve it.

SPEAKER_02 58:16

It's just unbelievable. That's so incredible what you what you all are doing there. Um wow. Um, we do have a question we like to ask all of our guests. And um, just the first thing that comes to mind, it doesn't have to be the best, it doesn't have to be anything profound, but whatever pops into your head, what's the kindest thing someone has done for you?

SPEAKER_00 58:39

Oh gosh. Well, the one that comes to mind because it brought tears to my eyes and it's kind of cheesy, but a friend, I go to the same hairdresser as her, or I did at the time, and she paid for my my haircut. Like she knew I was coming like the next day or after her, and she paid for my haircut. And in that moment when she's like, No, so and so covered it. I welled up. I was like such a dork.

SPEAKER_02 59:07

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 59:08

I mean, it just touched me in that moment.

SPEAKER_02 59:10

Dork nothing. I'm welling up.

SPEAKER_00 59:12

That's right, just to have that.

SPEAKER_03 59:16

That's beautiful. I love hearing stories like that. Like for the person behind me at Starbucks, you know, that was just like there's still goodness.

SPEAKER_02 59:27

There's so much goodness. But yeah, it's it's outside of the Super Bowl, there's so much goodness. Yes. I just want to do a whole podcast on how much I hate the Super Bowl. Bible smuggling and an anti-Super Bowl.

SPEAKER_03 59:45

I always find that's the best time to go shopping. It's true.

SPEAKER_00 59:49

It really is. Like there's lots of places that are dead that normally are too busy to bother on the weekend. But yes.

SPEAKER_02 59:57

Like Sam's Club. Or like Target.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:02

I haven't heard for sure, but I live close to Dollywood, you know. Best in peace Dolly. Yeah. But I bet Dollywood's not that crowded on Super Boats. It's just even open because they kind of have seasonal winter dead winter. They, you know, they take some time off and all that. But probably other amusement parks that are more for sure. Oh, that's smart.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:22

I just want to go ride roller coasters all by myself.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:25

I I just want to go to Dolly World. I know. Courtney, maybe we need to go on down to Tennessee and do a little bit. Yeah, come to Dollywood. I've never been to Tennessee, so that could be fun. We can come by the ranch and say hello to you. There you go. That would be cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:42

More importantly, say hello to the horses. Um, Dina, give me a name of your a favorite horse that you've ever wanted.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:53

Oh my gosh, that feels like I know.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:54

I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:55

Yeah, I was trying to. Well, so this last camp, Hank was my guy. Hank one of the ranch horses. He was just sweet and like wanted to be cuddled by me, especially, right? Every time you just accept my love and my cuddling and my fruit up in space, and he just was like, Okay, I'm here for it. So Hank was Hank was my horse this last camp.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:21

Shout out to Hank. That see, that'll make me cry. Like any it's the animals, man. Yeah. And mainly horses. Like, because I always believe in another life I was a horse. And maybe in another life I'll be a horse again. Um you never know.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:38

You never know. Maybe. Um, well, Dina, thank you so much for coming on today and talking to us about Blazing Hope and giving us that information. Um, for all of our viewers and listeners, we will put all those helpful hotline numbers up for you on our website. If you have any questions for Dina, please email us at that wasn't the planpod at gmail.com. We can get in touch with her. You can also go to blazinghope ranch.org and find out more information. Please donate if you can, spare a little money. Any any amount is a great amount. It is. I always say. Um yeah, this this was wonderful. Thank you, uh Courtney. Thank you, Dina. Yeah, thank you, Dina. Thank you guys. Um, and thank you to our listeners. Please, um, if you like our episodes, please just like, review, and subscribe and all that good stuff. And until we talk to you next time, thank you and goodbye. Goodbye.