SPEAKER_02 0:04

That wasn't the plan.

SPEAKER_03 0:10

Hello, Courtney Holland. Hello, Emily Whiteass, my dear. That's what you are in my phone, Emily Whiteass. You're Courtney Holland tunnel.

SPEAKER_01 0:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:21

So friendship. Friendship. I think we came up with those names when we were in our 20s. So absolutely. So like a couple years ago. Right. Like five years ago. And welcome everyone to That Wasn't the Plan. Thank you for tuning in today. Sorry. We have a wonderful guest on today. Ooh. Lucas Smith is from Colorado. He has degrees in English and computer programming, which means he's full of depth and knowledge. He has spent 15 plus years as a software engineer, developer, and technologist, most recently working at the intersection of AI and technology.

SPEAKER_03 1:00

Yikes.

SPEAKER_02 1:01

He hosts the riveting and acclaimed Not Retired Yet podcast about people navigating midlife pivots and the question of what comes next when the plan changes on you, which, you know, feels right for our show. I've actually been a guest on the podcast. Everyone, you should check it out. It's fascinating. Yeah. Wait, what is it called again? It's called Not Retired Yet.

SPEAKER_03 1:26

I like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:27

Yeah. He is a multi-instrumentalist and musician. He plays the bass, guitar, he sings, and he plays the drum machine. He is also an avid cyclist. I thought that you'd get a kick out of that. That's so sick. He is a master of the smoker, as in the grill, not cigarettes. Yeah. He's impressive. I I swear to God. His smoked salmon is life-changing. Excellent. He's a devoted husband. And as of recently, the dad of a high school graduate who is about one month away from leaving for college. And that is why we are here today. So welcome, Lucas. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

Thank you for coming on. Yeah, no, my pleasure. I have uh thanks for that great intro. Uh we've never kind of like had a quite a perspective like that before uh on uh the last few years. Yeah, I'm from Colorado originally, but I've been here in Seattle for 26 years now.

SPEAKER_02 2:37

You'll always be a Colorado native.

SPEAKER_00 2:38

Pretty native at this point.

SPEAKER_02 2:41

I I don't view it like that. I've always kind of viewed myself as a Colorado native and e regardless of wherever I live for how long as I live.

SPEAKER_00 2:50

Yeah, yeah. It's it's it's funny. It's like uh I I don't know when that changed. I I kind of did too. Um but yeah, I'm I'm from Colorado. I'm from Colorado. Like, but recently it's been no, I'm I live in Seattle. Um I'm from Seattle.

SPEAKER_03 3:04

Yeah. That's because you're like the same person. Colorado.

SPEAKER_02 3:09

We both spent time in California, but that's we met up here, even though he's been married to one of my best friends. Um, for gosh, you guys just celebrated your 20th last year, was it? 21st. Wow. 21st anniversary. Congratulations. That's and you've got a little one off. Well, not so little anymore.

SPEAKER_00 3:28

Oh no, he's he's huge. He's a monster. It's friends.

SPEAKER_02 3:31

He's very tall. How tall? How tall?

SPEAKER_00 3:35

Oh, well, like 6'2, 6'1, 6'2, something like that. That's legit. That's legit. No, no, I I I back away. He's he's very scary.

SPEAKER_03 3:45

He's not scary. They are, aren't they? Giant teenage boys. Fear unlocked, I'm telling you. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 3:54

Well, Lucas, you're here for actually to talk about Levi leaving the house, but it's so much more than that today. Uh, I think that a lot of folks, our generation, when I say our generation, Gen Xers, who that actually spans over, I think like 12 years from the late 60s, like 68 until 1980, people consider themselves to be Gen Xers. But a lot of us have had kids that have left the house or are leaving the house now. Um you said that uh a few months ago that something hit you. And after filling out all of the college applications with your son Levi, um, that it dawned on you and it brought up all these old memories for you about when you were kind of that age. So kind of before we get into that, I just wanted to kind of start with a little bit more about yourself. You've described yourself as a pack horse, like quote unquote, load me down, point me in a direction, and I'll get there. Has that always been the plan for you, or or has there been a cost to living that way, do you think?

SPEAKER_00 4:58

Yeah, no, that's that's a good question. I kind of think that a pack horse is uh like not a planner. It's very much um uh the opposite of a planner. You are just you're just going, um, you you I can carry a bunch of stuff and I can I can just go. But what I'm not good at is going and saying, like, I'm gonna go here. Here's how I'm gonna get there, here's what I need to get there. Um, you know, I'm I'm just gonna I'm just gonna over-engineer things and and take everything I need because I can carry it, or I have been able to in the past. I think that that's probably changing now as I get older and um you know as we start kind of aging um in uh in a way that our our bodies and our minds are not quite so uh uh able to adapt to do things like that. But yeah, the idea that that I can even do that is kind of coming from a privileged point of view. Like this is this uh feels like a total like white male type of thing to say, like, oh yeah, and whatever, you know, it'll work out. Uh whatever happens, it'll work out, right? Right, because that's because like that's like um not uh how other people think about things. They've got to be very very deterministic in how they uh map out their programs and their life and how they're gonna get from point A to point B. And you know, I here I am just kind of like stumbling around and and like, oh whatever, you know, it'll happen, it'll get there. And I, you know, I I kind of saw this attitude in my own dad, who's kind of does that, he's like, oh, yeah, whatever. I'm gonna go over and and do this. Um, where, you know, and and my mom was just kind of kind of constantly pulling her hair out, worrying about uh money, worrying about like her kids and things like that. My dad's like, oh, look over here. Um and so like once I started like seeing that, that was kind of something that I wanted to change and had some uh and you know, faced some real headwinds in actually doing that. It was so kind of ingrained in me that I was like not a planner and more of so much more of a uh pack horse and being able to uh just kind of do whatever I wanted and and stumble through and do it. Kids change that, you know, kids, kids and family change that mortgage change that, as we know. Uh being able to have like those kind of responsibilities is something you have to, you know, plan for. Yeah, you gotta be like, I don't know, I'm gonna pay mortgage this month.

SPEAKER_02 7:05

Yeah. So did you envision or think that you had a plan? Let's just go back a year when Levi was starting his senior year in high school and you thought this is how the year is gonna go. He's going to apply for colleges, he'll get accepted at one of them, we'll send him off and everything will be fine. Was that kind of your plan going in as a self-proclaimed pack horse in a sense?

SPEAKER_03 7:28

Were you thinking it was just gonna turn out just as uh Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:32

No, I get what you're going. The timeline for this actually starts his junior year. Oh, okay. Like, yeah, so so it's it's bananas. Like back like 30 years ago when I went to school, it was just like, eh, I'm gonna go to the go to college. Right. And and what you know, whatever. Um, and uh now it starts like two years before it. You he's got that in his head probably as he's exiting his sophomore year. Like, oh man, I need to start working on uh college stuff now. And that's that's crazy. Like, how can you like plan that stuff when your brain is like 15 years old? Like, how do you do that when you're when you're like 50? It's it's weird. Uh but yeah, so he's had two years to kind of ramp up and kind of decide what he wants to do. And I'm super proud of him for being this guy that knew he wanted to go to college, as opposed to just like, I don't know. He he wanted that freshman experience, he wanted to go to the dorms, he wanted to be able to live on his own and be and be on his own. And that's that's like super cool to understand that about yourself um at that at that young age, that that was important to him. And so it started two years ago um when he was first starting thinking about this. And yeah, there's tons of forms and there's tons of uh issues with uh like finances and uh where in the you know panopoly of schools do you actually want to go? And you know, he's he's he did a really good job early on about like kind of focusing and identifying what he wanted out of that situation. And um, that's really cool. And maybe that's why you have the the kind of broad timeline for that type of decision is so you can really get laser focused and it's not detrimental for actually what you want.

SPEAKER_02 9:10

So he seems more of a planner than you possibly ever were. And so here you thought you were helping your son apply to colleges. When did you realize that something else entirely was happening to you?

SPEAKER_00 9:21

Yeah. It probably was like maybe November, October, November last year in 2025. And kind of like just feeling really kind of bogged down by this process. And it was more than that. I was losing sleep and getting really angry over things. And I couldn't quite figure it out. I knew this was something that had to do with the family kind of breaking apart and being able to usher in this new portion of our lives that is necessary for advancing and growing, not only for him, but for us, for my what my wife and I to be able to go and get him to adulthood. I was having these really big emotions about how this was happening. I was like, Well, yeah, wow, this is really hitting really hard. Why is this hitting so hard? And I couldn't quite sort it out. And where 2026 came in in in January, um, that's kind of where I was sitting.

SPEAKER_02 10:12

And you were upset and angry because you couldn't figure that out. Um, but you told me that your family when you were growing up kind of fell apart right before or around your own high school graduation. Like your parents were scrambling. You're one of three, so all of the kids were left to their own devices. You were about 18, you were in a band, you were the editorial editor for your high school paper, and you felt like nobody was watching. What did you do with that kind of freedom of sorts?

SPEAKER_00 10:42

Yeah, I was a pretty good student, at least like as my senior year uh wore down and was able to really kind of self-direct myself into really what I wanted. I was really uh into journalism and writing and being the editor of a high school paper, um, you know, lead guitar and jazz band. And I had lots of gigs with that. And that was super fun. But as my family kind of disintegrated as I uh turned 18 and before that, my mom and dad split up. Uh and I have good relationships with both of them now. I'm fine talking about it like that, but they split up and we had very little money, even you know, when they were together. Um, grew up pretty, pretty lower middle class, and they split up and they nobody had any money. Uh, they had to like figure out what to do with my younger brother and sister, who were in a much more kind of vulnerable state. And so uh here I am as an 18-year-old. I've got agency, I've got a car. I'd been working full-time for you know, since I was 15 at that point, and so I had money. Um, and I didn't have much of a schedule. I could just like go and do whatever I want. So I like really did some like really terrible things, you know, uh like to like like to myself and to my friends. Um not too fine of a point on it, just really kind of dangerous and attention-getting things, um uh a lot of a lot of alcohol, a lot of drugs, um, to be able to uh you know, just like just like push these boundaries a little bit and uh because nobody's watching, nobody's listening. And uh eventually I was able to graduate um and uh kind of did that with a plom, but only, you know, uh uh like only only through luck uh pretty much um that I didn't end up somewhere uh less pleasant than uh than the graduation gown. Um and maybe like all gen Gen Xers say that, you know? Oh my god, you know, kids today they can't do they wouldn't be able to do other things that I did. Well, that's probably true. That's probably a good thing.

SPEAKER_02 12:42

It is true. I mean, we're so connected these days, you know where everybody's at all the time. And I feel like us Gen Xers were raised as latchke kids. And I remember that one specific commercial when we were growing up, it was like, it's 10 p.m. Do you know where your kids are? And nowadays, like you could never get away with that because it's you know, it's 10 10 p.m. is way too late nowadays. But back then, you know, it was just like call the neighbors, where are the kids at? Go get them. Um so at that time when you were close to graduating, were you living at home?

SPEAKER_00 13:15

Off and on, um there's little home um at that point. If I think the the month I graduated, um my parents sold the house and um and split up uh permanently at that point. Uh my dad moved to a small town in the mountains and uh my mom kind of was left to piece like piece together, you know, my brother and sister and my and sort of myself. I don't know what kind of thought she gave to how that was gonna work. I shuffled off to some family members in Ohio for a little bit, um, which was great. Um, that gave my mom some space to breathe and kind of focus on what she needed to do. When I came back, there didn't have any room for me. So I spent some time homeless. I spent a lot of time on uh uh floor of my friend uh Dave, who um to this day I I owe such a debt to his uh parents, Wayne and Jill, for putting up with me for so long. And you know, just coming down then, oh, there's Lucas in the refrigerator again. Oh, you know, he's sleeping bags over on the floor again. So And they never said anything. They never batted an eye about it. It was just always always kind of like, okay, yeah, that he's here. So I definitely owe a huge debt to them in a way that could probably never be repaid.

SPEAKER_02 14:29

Do you think that being the age where you were 17, 18, watching your parents go through this divorce and you kind of being an adult at the time, but your siblings were younger? That maybe you've pushed some of these emotions down that you were just trying to get from A to B, point to point at this point in your life, getting through high school. And that that's the reason why these uncomfortable feelings have resurfaced in the past six to ten months now, um, with your own son about to fly the coop and that your memories are possibly scrambled because of it all.

SPEAKER_00 15:08

Oh, yeah. Uh yeah, for sure. And again, like maybe that's that's a function of being a pack horse as well.

SPEAKER_01 15:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:14

You know, you're kind of you're loading yourself down and you're just kind of going, you're trying just kind of trudging along, going from point A to point B. And if maybe maybe it helps, it's a survival thing to put those blinders on so you're not doing too much introspection at that point. You know, even at 18, you know, like like you're you're writing some pretty bad poetry. You're like listening to the misfits over and over again. Like that's the job. Um, but uh it's uh it I think there is a a portion of that that is very much a survival thing, and that they the you kind of have to like kind of choke it down and say like this isn't right. I'm not getting a good deal here. I've got no ability to understand where where I should be going, what I should be doing, because I'm just a pack horse. I'm just going from point A to point B. I don't I'm going, I'm going up there, but there's something over there that maybe you know, like all all my friends are going that way, but I'm going this way. And you have no ability to do that. You gotta go.

SPEAKER_02 16:14

At the time when you were graduating, had you applied for colleges? Is that something you thought you were gonna go do? Like, not at all. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 16:22

I did not. Uh uh, it was not even on my roadmap. And thinking about it now, I don't think that that I had actually given any thought to that. Or I had I had thought that that was something that I was going to be doing, which seems really weird. Like, you know, both my both my parents were are college graduates. They know the they know the value of a degree. The they know the value of education. And I was never sat down and said, like, all right, well, you know, you're you're actually a really good student. You've got some really good things going on. You're a good writer, you're a good musician. Go and like you should you should continue doing this. I don't ever remember like having these conversations with the, you know, with the people who uh who knew about what the next steps would be. Um and that that seems really, really strange um to me in retrospect that that would that uh all the pieces were there, they just didn't line up.

SPEAKER_02 17:15

Right. You said you don't remember having those conversations, but your mom does remember having this conversation with you.

SPEAKER_00 17:24

Yeah. So back like I guess maybe it was January this year, 2026. Um I called my mom, like kind of right in the throes of like when I was really dealing with some of the heavier uh stuff of all this. Uh when I was kind of remembering like uh being homeless and and trying to figure out that stuff. Um, I called my mom and was just like, you know, what happened here? Like, why is there such this gap in um in my life that I can't figure out? And uh and she says, Oh, well, well, actually we did talk about it and we we thought that it would be best for you to take some time off from school. Like, what? News to me, right? Well fuck, what? Uh but yeah, so like I I've I've got no memory of that.

SPEAKER_02 18:17

Um it But you say that you've got a really good memory and that you can actually like you say your first memory, which is this is incredible to me, was at the age of one.

SPEAKER_00 18:28

Yeah, probably, probably the age of one, probably a little bit younger. Um I couldn't I couldn't walk. Um, but yeah, the first memory is like looking up from the floor. Well, my my parents kind of lived in a commune um with a bunch of people. This is back in the 70s when you know you could do that kind of stuff. Um and uh yeah, looking up from the floor and and seeing uh one of the members of the commune.

SPEAKER_02 18:50

So you wrote something that I keep coming back to that at the age you are now in your 50s, that your memories are now untrustworthy. What do you mean by that exactly?

SPEAKER_00 18:59

Well, just like the being able to not remember uh this kind of pivotal conversation um with my mom uh really kind of spun me around. Like, yeah, what else don't I remember? You know, what else uh do I not kind of grok about um uh about this part of my life? At this point over this winter and spring, I've formed a really kind of solid opinion about what happened. Um and uh the it and then talking to my mom about this, I was like, well, maybe that opinion isn't quite so accurate. So I started thinking about this in that kind of light. Like, what else am I forgetting? And I actually remember in at some sort of indeterminate year going on a college tour with my dad. Um and uh like like actually actually touring college. I don't I don't remember when that was. It might have been before this, it might have been after it. I don't really remember that part of it, but like I don't remember that. What else is there that is kind of shaded or clouded over by this big emotions that that were happening about that that I can't I can't quite access? Um that's troubling in a lot of ways. Like at 50, I mean it's it's it's the ship of theseus uh idea where a boat travels around the world without ever touching port. And within those years that it's traveling, every board on that boat gets replaced. Is that the same boat that left? So are we the same person that that started out? How can that be when your cells regenerate what is it, like every seven years or something like that? When physically you're not the same person who were seven years ago. You've got these memories that kind of are glue for that stuff.

SPEAKER_02 20:40

Right.

SPEAKER_00 20:40

But what happens when you can't trust those anymore?

SPEAKER_02 20:43

Right. Like if your memories are the thing holding you together as everything else in your body kind of regenerates. What's left if you can't trust them anymore? Right. Right. Yeah, because it's like you have this one version that you've told yourself over the years about your childhood and maybe parents not showing up at how you needed them to, but your mom has another equally true version of what happened. And so how do you deal with both of those being right?

SPEAKER_00 21:14

Yeah, how how do you? And that's that's an ongoing question. I think the I I think you start getting really good at things like pattern recognition. Like you recognize um you you recognize things that look similar to other things. And that's um that's super important. Uh that's just the engineer in me coming out um of uh about like how to solve problems is that there's this element of pattern recognition, but also you or at least I I think that you start um relying more on instinct. Like I I don't necessarily trust um a memory anymore, but I've got this gut check that is very powerful uh and very true, at least to. A certain truth that is something that I can trust really really well. So the so the gut check and the instinct is, I think, a really good way to circumvent those kind of uh moody memories that we have over our challenging times to be able to identify those patterns and to understand them as on an instinctual level. Um it's an interesting idea and very primal in a way. Like here we are, maybe like swinging down from the trees or something like that. And what do we have other than that kind of this primal instinct about what's on the ground?

SPEAKER_02 22:35

I like that. The primal instinct. Courtney, you seem to have a really good memory. You can always recall things that I just can't anymore. I don't know how you can do it. I'm a genius.

SPEAKER_03 22:50

That's probably it. Smartest person in the world.

SPEAKER_02 22:54

Do you ever feel the same as Lucas, where things in your past, you're like, huh, did that actually happen because maybe my my family recalls it differently than I ever did?

SPEAKER_03 23:06

Oh, yeah. All the time, actually. Um recently I've I'll think of a story, I'll be telling Jonathan the story, and I'll be like, I need to check my facts here. I need to go to my parents and be like, what do you remember about this scenario? Because this is what I remember. And generally it's totally different. So my interpretation, and I can't remember where I'd heard something about like the memory is faulty because it's just you have retold yourself the story and have and it's changed, it's it's evolved over time. And and then there's this weird thing, and I can't I still don't know if it's because my mom is um I still goose. And um so I I'll be with her and she will tell a story that was my story that I experienced. It was like that was me. I was like, wait, what? And she's like, no, it wasn't. I'm like, mom. And she's not like someone that would be trying to take any kind of like, you know, we're both gonna die on the hill that she says it happened to her, I say it happened to me. I'm like happening. And I've had to consult my sister. She's my sister is very good. Uh her memories I trust more than my own because she is a little bit like chiller than I am. And so I feel like my memories, I like there to be a story, I like it to have a narrative, I like it to be so great or so bad, you know? And so I definitely think that, you know, my interpretation of things, and even with my husband now, like God bless him, I'll tell him things or ask him a question multiple times, and then he'll be like, You never told me that, or you never asked me that. And that, that I'm like, that's gaslighting, motherfucker. And he's like, No, it's not. So I essentially have taught him the word for the things that he does. My mom's a gaslighter too. She'll be like, You remember that movie with that guy who's looks like our cousin? I was like, No, mom. And she goes, Yes, you do. You remember, come on, Courtney, you remember it. Surrounded by gaslighters. But um, while Lucas was sharing about it, I I was thinking that leaves us only with the now. So very power of now, like thinking that's all we've got. Like memories don't they can serve with instincts. Like, I really like what Lucas said about instinct and my gut. I always try and really like try and listen to my gut. I don't, I don't always abide by the gut, but I it it's a practice to like be aware of what that small voice is like. Maybe this is a bad idea, you know.

SPEAKER_02 25:46

Right. Like maybe our memories actually live in our gut where we think they live in our minds. And so we have to stop thinking so much about them and feeling our memories instead of thinking.

SPEAKER_03 26:00

And like perfect example, I actually I don't know if this is a perfect example, but I've learned when I focus on something and try to do it well, I do it shitty. Example number one, when I was in college, because I went to school for musical theater, um it served me very well, obviously. Um, I uh my voice teacher, I was in a voice lesson and I was singing and I'm like totally not present. I just wasn't thinking about like the things, and then she'd be like, Great, Courtney, yes, more of that. And then when I would try and focus on it, she'd be like, mm, but um, we've really gotten into cornhole. That this is just the other two reasons. He my husband is very competitive and he loves sports and he loves all that stuff. And I'm not competitive and I'm more like, hee hee, whatever. And when I try to be good at cornhole, I'm trash. But when I am just like when I'm singing or telling a story or talking and throwing it, then I do great. Yeah. What does that mean and how does it go along with what we're talking about? I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 27:01

Well, so Lucas, Levi hasn't not left the house yet. He leaves in about a month. Um what is the last stretch feeling like? Are you savoring it, dreading it, pretending like it's not happening? Your house is about to be one-third less occupied, which means I mean, that's not just your house, but that's embodies your own body as well, like your feelings and emotions and how you come in the house every day after work. Like it's just you're gonna have that emptier feeling, perhaps.

SPEAKER_00 27:33

Yeah, there's definitely an element of that. Uh I try I try not to leave myself too much that way. Um, yeah, being yeah, being really present. Uh it it's it's pretty good right now. Uh he's doing his own thing. Um, and we're kind of we're tying the knots together. We're kind of we're stitching up these last few moments that we have um with each other like in a kind of productive way. Like yesterday I'm teaching him how to change oil in the in the car, how to change a tile, how to do like how to do like all this like adult stuff. And um and like, you know, that's a checkbox right there. That's like, all right, yeah, that's that I know how to do this kind of important adulting stuff. Um or at least from my point of view, um, that's a checkbox there. You probably like he'll get a flat tire on the side of the road and be like, oh, dad never even tried to teach me how to do this. Right. Um uh but but yeah, like things like that. Uh we've got a bike trip planned, um, and gonna go bounce around for a little bit. We've done a bunch of like kind of cleaning up and the you know, the big portions of of the moving out part are like going and acquiring dorm stuff. Yeah, acquiring your mini fridge, acquiring your fake ID, acquiring trash can.

SPEAKER_01 28:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:53

So like all that, all that important stuff, like those are still kind of on the box, but you know, we're we're progressing through it. It's uh it's it's a good spot right now. And I think like he's going to school maybe about six, five, six hours away from Seattle here. Um so we're gonna drive down there and drop him off. And I think maybe that's going to be a very quiet drive home.

SPEAKER_02 29:13

Yeah. So it you're giving Levi everything that you possibly didn't receive when you were about his age, like the conversations about college, the plans, kind of the showing up when he walks out that door. What does the version of you that never got any of this want to say to him?

SPEAKER_00 29:32

Uh that's a good question. No, don't waste my money. Uh you sound like my dad. Yeah, I don't know. Like, uh, it's cool because he's such kind of a thoughtful person.

SPEAKER_02 29:45

Yeah, anyway.

SPEAKER_00 29:46

So that's gonna take him pretty far like that. He's not gonna go off and join a frat or anything that's going to like have these uh uh effects that aren't aren't so great. Um so I'm not super worried about that. Um there was a time where I was like worried that I didn't know what the what the other side of that would look like for me and my wife. There was a point in time where I'm just like, that's really scary. Um is does she still want to, you know, be with me? Are we able to be in the same room for so long, day in, day out uh with each other? And that that's passed for the most part. The being able to being able to kind of say like uh uh going back to like the gut check, yeah, we'll be able to do that. That's gonna be fine. We've been you know married for so long, and that's where the patriot is. Um you know, we still are both working. Um, we're not close to retirement yet. So we're still working, we still have to do that. Um, and I think having like that kind of schedule is going to be beneficial and helpful um in a lot of ways.

SPEAKER_03 30:47

Yeah, absolutely. I have one thought when you mentioned the relationship with your wife. My sister said the uh the most fascinating thing she was saying with Sailor, my niece, um, because Sailor's gonna be a graduate this year. She's graduating, um, she's going into her senior year. But my sister talked about how the relationship between her and Bill, her husband, um is the one she has to prioritize because Sailor is leaving. And but she was just like, this is the relationship, you know, him and I continue on. You know, she is a part of our lives, of course, but he's still gotta be my number one because, you know, she Sailor will I and I wish I had a more eloquent way of saying it, but it's it's fascinating because I know that a lot of relationships probably really go through a strain. Lucky for me, Jonathan and I are have only been together three years. Today, actually, this is our anniversary. Um, and oh happy anniversary. Very well. Um we l we did it three years. It's incredible. Next to Lucas, 21 years, whatever. It's not a race.

SPEAKER_00 31:57

Um it is not a race.

SPEAKER_03 32:01

But um, you know, we so from the moment I moved in here, I uh we have yet to have like the honeymoon, you know, whatever. But I'm also very introverted and he is not, and um so it's worked out in my favor because he's got so many other things going on. I can just slip into the background and just kind of, you know, read a book and and have my alone time. But um, you know, I've also thought because we've had a house full of boys and dogs and and just so much going on that, you know, when we finally do, we're gonna downsize big time and just I want small, less, all of that. But I have like we have moments where that no one's here and I'm like, what do we do? Like, I'm not cleaning up after anybody. What do I do? Like I don't have anything to do. But uh anyhow, I I like what you said, Lucas. I just think that the relationship between um, you know, that takes a strain as well, the fear of like, oh, here we go. What does that look like in the future? But yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:04

Yeah, I think a lot of a lot of like relationships don't survive it, actually.

SPEAKER_01 33:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:09

Um, I think that the uh there's a good amount of people who once they're they're empty nesters, once they have no nobody else to kind of like reflect off of that is that is too much of a strain and and they need to check out. You know, that is what it is, and I hope it doesn't happen to me or us, but you know, I can see that even in uh the the whole bunch of friends that I have in a similar situation, um this year especially. Uh yeah, I've I've got some concerns.

SPEAKER_02 33:38

Yeah. So you're midlife, your only child is about to leave, your memories seem unreliable, and you seem very curious. What are you curious about moving forward when in like a month, three months when Levi is out of the house and you know, he's not far, Becky's right there. But for you, what are you curious about moving forward?

SPEAKER_00 34:02

Um, I don't know if I'm curious about much. Um, I there's some things I'm looking forward to. And that's being to have a lot more freedom to like go, you know, and and fly down to San Diego for a weekend, um, go in and do daily shopping instead of weekly shopping. You know, that's that's like a super dumb thing to say, but like uh being able to have like that type of lifestyle, I guess, um, is compelling in a way that it hasn't been for a while. And you know, maybe that'll hit, maybe it won't, but being able to, I guess, uh strive for that type of lifestyle is is compelling enough to uh to be able to uh sleep at night. Um and you know, it's dumb because like uh this is such a necessary step uh in people's lives to be able to go and leave home and you know, to try to shake things out as on your own as an adult. That's how you have to do it as an adult. Um and uh you're not kind of thrown in the fire, uh, you know, like like I think a lot of us were. Um you're kind of eased into it. Um and uh, you know, as I'm talking to my son, because this was maybe a year ago, I was like, well, you know, it have you thought about taking a gap year, working a little bit and doing that? And he's like, like 100% no, I don't want to do that. I want the uh um, I want this experience, I want this college experience, freshman experience. Um at such a good like uh I guess springboard for everything to have absolutely to have that. Um and I'm trying to talk with him a little bit about you know my experiences going and I did we didn't mention it, but I did actually end up going to college uh as I moved out and uh was able to move to a town, a small town that had a college in it, and just and just kind of pulled uh put the plug in there. But I'm telling him about this experience and and and like how much I thought I had to figure this stuff out on my own. And and he's like, Oh, but you know, I want you to be a part of this decision. Like with me, I want you to do that. That really kind of struck me as interesting because there's so many ways to do things, there's so many different ways to do things. Like, yeah, you don't have to take this one path to get to college, you don't have to get to take this one path to get to work. Just because it worked for me, just because you know it I had to be feral for a little bit to get there, um, does not mean that that's gonna work for everybody.

SPEAKER_02 36:27

Right. I feel like we're sold these stories as to what we should be doing with our lives, like graduate, go to college, et cetera, et cetera. Um but something just occurred to me, and I'm gonna put this in terms of weather, but it feels to me right now, and for you and for, you know, millions of other Gen Xers out there that you are in the eye of the hurricane. And I'll explain that a little bit, where you have spent the past 18 years raising a child. It's been chaotic, everything, and now you're about to be an empty nester where things may settle down. But fastly approaching is us taking care of our elderly parents. Do you think about that at all? Does that weigh on you at all?

SPEAKER_00 37:13

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, definitely. That's a huge piece of my 2 AMs. Um being able to being able to sort that stuff out. Um arguably our parents were no better at being adults than we are. Which is like a really terrible thing to think about. Uh like that they've got money problems, their bodies are disintegrating, they're they're like things aren't working the same way. And and they're like thousands of miles away. Um so like the that's a huge thing. And I know I've I've heard it before, and I don't really remember where, but like to say, like, this is the kind of the sandwich generation where we're sandwiched between the kids um needing things and our parents needing things, and whatever we need kind of, you know, that gets like sorted out later. Um I I don't know that that's much different from you know what our parents had to go through in a lot of ways, but I I you know I don't know. I don't think they think about it like that. Um, but definitely we think about it like that. You know, we're worried it lands on our shoulders to um to deal with the gaps in income that your parents don't have, you know, that uh they don't have enough money for food or something like that, which is like so fucking scary. I can't even like articulate it right. Um uh or they're failing bodies or you know, failing minds that are just uh not great. Um and so yeah, we're kind of getting squished from two different directions um for with the with the kids. And I'm not, you know, definitely not uh talking just kind of emotionally, but like financially too. Like that's a that's a huge part where you know they need they need care, your kids need care, and you still got a mortgage bank doesn't care that your kids need care. Um uh that definitely factors into a lot a lot of things. You know, fortunately, both my folks um and my wife's mother has uh they've got good uh faculty still. They they still are quite engaged and quite and their bodies are still pretty good. Um that is once the wind changes on that, that's gonna that's gonna be different.

SPEAKER_02 39:24

Um we're in parenting 2.0, where you thought maybe you were done parenting for a little bit, but you're not. Now we're parenting our parents.

SPEAKER_00 39:32

And yeah, I think I th I think there is like an element of that for sure.

SPEAKER_02 39:36

Yeah, I I feel that. I've felt that for the past few years as well.

SPEAKER_03 39:39

Courtney, do you feel that at all? For sure. I and I've because it's heavy and because the thought of it um is so it's like, oh my god, they were right, you know, life gets just harder. And so I got really caught up in the idea that like, oh my god, it's just going to get harder to how fun it's gonna be to be able to spend more time with my folks, and which I've been able to do now, and and get to know them as like I'm a full-grown adult, and my my life has finally, finally kind of stabilized over the last 10 years. And I have more of a um a curiosity about them and also about the stories that they've told. And it's funny, my dad, as he's gotten older, has he seems to like me less. Uh we joke about it in the house because the only things he ever says to me, he's like, Oh, hey, hey, girl, how you doing? And then he's like three or four times during my stay, he'll be like, Courtney, where are your dogs? He gets so crabby about my dogs. And uh I always like to joke that that's literally all he'll talk to me about, but um and he's in love with Jonathan. Jonathan is, you know, he goes and fixes the boat. But um, that has been a worry, but I try and kind of shift it. Jonathan's mother passed away uh last um a year ago on Mother's Day, um and so right, and and so now we're caring for his dad, who luckily lives uh just down the street, and he also has nine siblings to help, you know. So he has got like a great support system. And with my sister and my brother and I, my brother is in Reno, my sister is in Blacksburg, she's the whole reason I moved to Virginia, and um, but I feel like I have the most flexibility to where when there's an issue, which there has been a few things over the last couple of years, I was able to be up there right away. And it also feels very good to be of service to them because I'm, you know, I did put them through a lot over the year, as we all do. Um, and it's I want to be a source of like relief for them the way that they were for me, you know, um, emotionally and financially, you know. So um, you know, as as hard as it is, I have to put some sort of lighter spin on it because um helped it helps me to help them. Help me help them. So um, but yeah, it's I wish they would teach, I wish in school, high school, I wish they would have a class that talks to us about just taxes. Could they have just gone over taxes for us? And also a course on caring for your elderly parents. Yeah. Like I just feel like there are some very key things. I know kids would have loved that course, but um you know what I mean? Just maybe, maybe in sex ed they'd go over all that stuff, and then they'd be like, also, this is probably gonna happen. This is how you navigate that. Um, you know, that would have been super beneficial instead of you know, fucking integers and and the Texas instrument. And I was a terrible student, Lucas. I mean, I was really a bad student and I tried. That was the worst part. I tried so hard. And I just my brain was like, we don't do this, we don't do math. That's stupid. Um, but but yeah, we're talent helpful. Yeah, and the talent. Yep. Um, and so I I uh that would have been helpful. Taxes, especially, I still fucking I get it, but whatever. Anyhow. Um I did have a question for you, Lucas. This is a little bit of a a change, but I've been thinking about, you know, you talking about your son and and how cool it is that you're able to get him to listen to you about, you know, changing the oil, changing a tire. I really, I oh man, my dad made us do it in the rain at night in the driveway. We had to change a tire before he'd let us drive by ourselves. And I'll tell you, three times in my college career, I had to change a tire. And I usually had a dude with me, and the dude would be holding, well, just this one time, a dude, he held the flashlight while I changed the tire.

SPEAKER_01 43:54

Nice.

SPEAKER_03 43:55

Am I that's like one of the only but I bet he was thinking about it. I'm that's so cool. I mean, it is empowering. And I also it just sounds like, you know, my sister, she has an only child. And, you know, they talk about how the children, as they get into teenage mode, they become incredibly frustrating, incredibly like um volatile. And that's to help you set them free because they're so difficult. They can be such pains in the ass. But it doesn't sound like you're getting that at all from your son. Like it sounds like you guys have like a pretty phenomenal um relationship. How's that been?

SPEAKER_00 44:36

Oh, yeah, no, it's it's totally been frustrating. Um, okay.

SPEAKER_01 44:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 44:43

Yeah, yeah. No, get like getting him to do it pretty much anything is is really challenging in a lot of ways. Um, but uh uh yeah, I can see that. I can totally see like uh, you know, when you got your kid and they're just born, or they're, you know, maybe not just born, but like a few weeks old and like starting to open their eyes, they're starting to like, you know, there's squeeze and like look at things and and things like that. And you're just like, oh my God, you're so cute. Oh, that's that's survival instinct, or that's survival. If that kid wasn't cute, and the the waking you up at like three in the morning every you know, every night is is going to be a lot more.

SPEAKER_02 45:23

Oh god, you wouldn't let the dingo get your baby.

SPEAKER_00 45:26

Yeah, where are the dingos? Or maybe like less uh or maybe less understanding ancestors um maybe would have survived. Yeah, right because of that. And so like the flip side of that is like, yeah, the like really aggravating teenager is like now ready to go out and and be aggravating to somebody else. Um and you're like, awesome, please do that. Yeah. They're ears now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:56

Good fucking luck. Sayanaro kiddo.

SPEAKER_02 46:00

I am now paying you fifty thousand dollars a year to take this thing off my hands. Yeah, please, please watch this. Take care of this little thing.

SPEAKER_00 46:09

God damn it. That's that's that's a hell of a perspective. Yeah, totally. You're like this this babysitter for four years. Uh turn your kid into an adult. I'll give you whatever you want.

SPEAKER_02 46:23

It's basically what college is, though. It's like they kind of ease you in with all this orientation. There's still like an RA that's living in the dorms to help them, you know, be a pseudo-parent of sorts. But they it's what college is, is it's just sort of a babysitter to help ease them into adulthood when, you know, the parents are like, Thank F and God, like they're out of the house. That's right. Training wheels. I'm not a parent, but I feel like as a parent, you're never done being a parent. You will always, always be a parent, regardless, um, unless you completely disown your children.

SPEAKER_00 46:57

Which it's a shifting landscape though. Uh it's such a shift uh to go from this little thing in your hands um to like shoving them out the door for their first day of classes. Um but you're right. I don't think you can ever stop uh stop doing that or stop caring in that regard. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:18

I have a question. So, and I've asked my mother this, and her answer was surprising. Uming what you know now about being a parent, um, would you do it again? Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:32

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:32

Absolutely. Okay, that's that's the answer, right? My mom said no. She was like, if I she was and she's the sweetest, most kind, wonderful, compassionate, like loves us as was just the phenomenal mom just in every way. But she said the pain of watching us go through things was beyond what she had could have even had any idea. And so then I was like, So who went through the hardest thing out of us? Because each of us have been through things. My brother broke his neck. Um, I was a raging alcoholic and addict. And so yeah, she said watching us go through really difficult life things. She's like, I I think she said, I don't know if I would do it again.

SPEAKER_02 48:15

I don't think it was a hard no, but and that surprised me because I'm like, Well, I have read a few, you know, and granted it's just like swiping through Instagram, but like The Guardian Air Atlantic or maybe New York Times or somebody, they kind of just asked if asked some people, got some polling numbers, like, would you be a parent again? And a lot of it was close to like 30, 35%. They said, No, I wouldn't do it. So I'm curious to our listeners out there who do have children, like I'm sure they're the light of your lives, but like what Courtney's question, would you do it again? Just curious. Let us know. I know it's thought provoking.

SPEAKER_03 48:55

And it doesn't mean you don't love and cherish your child, you know. It's just obviously like, and I I as much as I try to understand, and and now I'm a stepmom, which is such a weird term. Um, you know, I've got just the tedious, tedious pinhole of a view of what being a parent is like. And my God saluting to all the fucking parents, yo. And I was a shit when I was a kid. Like, I have to call my mom and be like, Can you remind me about how I never cleaned up after myself fucking ever, ever. Like, oh my god. And she's like, No, you were pretty good. And I was like, no, Sandy, tell me, tell me bad stuff. Because that helps me like remind me that I'm like, okay. This is part of it. Teenagers are they're messy.

SPEAKER_00 49:47

You don't remember that stuff though. You don't remember it. Like at least I don't. That's that's like that's not what kind of shapes out. The the you know, the how many doctors have I changed? Like a lot. I don't remember any of them.

SPEAKER_01 49:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:59

Um how many right, of course, yeah. I'm like, how much how much puke have I cleaned up? A lot. I don't remember it. Yeah. Um so like and so there we here we are back at memory again. Like that's not uh uh that that wasn't nearly important enough even at the time to register. You know, maybe maybe it was because I was so exhausted um that it's didn't remember anything. But uh but that's not what shapes out. You tend to remember like the you know the important aspects of it. Um not like this kind of grueling day-to-day stuff, which is helpful.

SPEAKER_02 50:33

So let me ask you, does that come up like in feelings? Like do you emotionally feel anything when you think about like the gross diapers or the puke or the exhaustion or anything? Does that do anything to you physically when you try and recall any of these memories?

SPEAKER_00 50:49

No. No, no. That it's uh at at this point, it's really far removed. Okay. Um and uh uh there's so many other things in which to, I guess, cogitate on and uh to spin around on um that those don't even make the list. Like that stuff doesn't even qualify as being worth my time to think about.

SPEAKER_03 51:09

Yeah. That's fair. I like that. Yeah. I'm sure that's because I forget about you know raising a puppy and how hectic it is in the first year. Um but like when I look back on my time with my my other dog, my old dog that passed away, I don't remember. I only remember the fun and how freaking adorable she was. So that definitely So I get it. I haven't I've had a puppy, so I get it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean.

SPEAKER_00 51:36

Totally. Totally. As far as the memory goes, uh that stuff is um you've got so many other things in which to work off of, um, in which to qualify that it's not even part of the experience at this point. Yeah, yeah, you went through it. Yeah, there's some vague kind of like muscle memory on how to like swaddle and or how to uh wrap up a diaper so it's like less stinky. Um it doesn't even qualify as something to like going forward to to be even worth your time to like or even worth the mental space to think about. Um though there is maybe some muscle memory in there that would be appropriate if you know you ever have to do it again. Like if you're a grandparent and you're you're babysitting your you know one-year-old.

SPEAKER_03 52:21

Oh, yeah. Well, yeah, it'll be diaper. I I know how to do that. I know how to do that. Yeah. These kids that become such a part of my lives, there's five of them, four of them are boys, and they're huge, they're giants, like your son. Um, and there's a perfectly adorable, wonderful girl. And I occasionally I will pull out one of their their books of pictures of when they were babies, and I have FOMO. Like it's this weird, like FOMO of like, I missed that part. And I do wish that, you know, because relate they I feel like I'm more of like an older sibling, somewhat with them, because I'm certainly they have a mom, she's lovely. Like, I'm not trying to replace their mom, but I do. I get those feelings like, I don't get woken up by you in the middle of the night, change your diaper, like but then again, I probably don't, but it's a neat feeling. It's neat that I look at that and as frustrating as it all is sometimes. It's it's cool that I love that that's my reaction when I see them as as babies, that I missed all of that, you know, even like through because they I came here when the youngest was 15 and the oldest was 23. So yeah. So it's it's neat. It's neat to have that because I never really thought I'd have kids. I didn't, you know, it just my life never pivoted in that way. And um but it's pretty cool to be like the you know the cool, gorgeous, interesting stepmom. That's right. That's the role I've taken. Fascinating. But they don't give a shit about anything I have to say. I'm like, I'm so fucking cool, you idiots, and they they don't agree, and that's fine.

SPEAKER_00 54:02

Five is nuts. Like, like five, five is crazy. The you know, the two kids I've heard two kids is more than twice the work as one. Five. That's just like that's just a fire hose. You're just not crazy, and like you've got no chance to breathe at that point.

SPEAKER_02 54:21

Lucas, her husband more or less raised them on his own.

SPEAKER_00 54:25

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 54:26

Isn't that incredible? Um That's that's amazing.

SPEAKER_03 54:29

He is still, I swear to God, he's still in survival mode. Like it has not changed. He is still living his life like we just gotta get through this day and we'll figure it out. Um but yeah, so it's a lot of I mean, I grew up in a family of three and it felt crowded, you know. We like, don't touch me. But I do love about these kids, oh my God, because they're so used to the chaos, when they are on a road trip, when we're all on a road trip together, they sleep on top of each other. Like they're all like hands, feet. I've just it warms my heart, and there's so many pictures of them sleeping in their bed with their dad. When their mom was gone, it was uh, you know, obviously very hard for the the young ones. And so they'd all sleep with him, and it was just like a pile up. And uh there's one picture of him on I have to share this, it cracks me up. When I was first starting to date him, I I did a deep dive on his Facebook, which you do, and he had a picture of the kids, three of them in bed, feet in face, feet on hands. And he said, Hashtag where am I gonna sleep? Hashtag no wonder mom left. And I was like, holy shit, I think I'm in love with this guy. That's hilarious. Like, no wonder mom left. Anyhow. Um yeah, I forget exactly why I needed to tell that story, but it's good. It's oh, just because they they're I like seeing how they function because my sister and my brother and I, uh, we I'm a toucher and they are not touchers, and so it was very like, don't you dare fucking touch me. Um, and these kids are just piling up together on the couch, they are on top of each other, drinking, eating each other's food. Like it's and I really enjoy that. Like, and they'll be like, You gotta try this, and they'll all try their food, and it's it's I don't know. I I found I found my perfect chaos. I love it. Uh for the most part.

SPEAKER_02 56:23

Um, Lucas, what's the biggest thing in your life right now that wasn't the plan? And you're starting to think that maybe it was exactly right.

SPEAKER_00 56:30

Well, let's see. Um, yeah, no, the uh you know, it wasn't ever the plan to be an engineer. Um and I've been doing that for a while, and it seems it seems to be pretty good right now. That's it. Um wasn't ever I would say like it was never the plan to have kids. Um but but once we started talking about it, it seemed like that. That we made a plan for that. So it was the plan for that.

SPEAKER_01 56:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:57

Um and I certainly like I I do not balk. I would absolutely do that again. Um the benefits far outweigh the negative ones, but yeah. Um uh at least at least for me. Um and uh I think like it was it's it's kind of a Gen X thing and it may be kind of glib, but it was never it was never part of the plan to live this long. Right?

SPEAKER_02 57:21

Me neither, dude. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:25

So uh you know is that our Gen X thing?

SPEAKER_02 57:28

Because Courtney and I used to talk about that all the fucking time.

SPEAKER_00 57:31

Yeah, yeah. It's like there's no we're dead. Absolutely. The the idea where you know you've got your good times are behind you, and you you know you take the Hemingway. And it maybe it's just kind of like uh romantic and and fun to think about, but it was never like executable. That's that's entirely part. Yeah, but you know, there was uh definit definitely never part of the plan when you're 18 to be like, oh, what am I gonna be like when I'm 53? Right.

SPEAKER_02 58:02

Even think about like I didn't go beyond my twenties, like oh never think of folks that are you know our age right now when we were that young, it was like, oh, they're so old, they're grandparents and gray hair and like walkers and they're close to death.

SPEAKER_00 58:21

Totally. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, and yeah, a lot of that is kind of media training and and things like that. Totally. Like the yeah, the idea that you know you're 18 and you've got no you have no concept about what's gonna happen in 40 years. You've got no fucking idea. Um and like an idiot. Like seriously, like seriously, like you've got like so true. Like like what are you gonna be like when you're 53? I don't know. I'm gonna I'm gonna like stay up all night and drink a lot of beer.

SPEAKER_03 58:50

Yeah. We need candy in bed.

SPEAKER_02 58:53

And now it's like 8 p.m. I can't drink after 5 p.m. Right.

SPEAKER_00 58:59

Like what like there's like there's always like that uh uh impulse like what would 18-year-olds say to you right now? Yeah, like I don't know. Uh it's like yeah, you're probably probably like trying to kick my ass. For sure. Um and uh yeah, and there's this dumb movie. Um, I watch a lot of movies. Um, there's this dumb movie like 10, 15 years ago called Looper, uh had Bruce Willis in it. Yeah. And um it was I don't think it was a very good movie, but there's this point where he goes back in time where Bruce Willis goes back in time and meets his younger self, and his younger self is like, it looks like your face is on upside down.

SPEAKER_03 59:42

That's what I was thinking. My I'll be like, oh my God. It's true. And so I I always try and think what will 56-year-old Courtney say to 40 year old, 46-year-old Courtney, and she'd be like, You're so gorgeous, still, you're beautiful, you're not old, you're great. Oh my god, embrace it, embrace it, love yourself, love yourself. You look great, you know. Like, because I imagine what my 30-year, uh, what my 45-year-old self would have said to my 35-year-old self and been like, stop caring about shit that doesn't matter, you know. But it is weird because it's like we like I I got old. I it it happened. Like when you're younger, you don't think you're gonna get old. It's like probably not. I won't age, I don't think. And then here we are.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:30

I I think we're unfortunate to be the ages we are. There's a lot of force that don't make it this far. Um absolutely. It's very true. So on that is your hard, right? Lucas, do you have anything else to add before we release you?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:48

Oh, here, I'll I'll uh I'll show you my drum machine.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:51

Oh my god, yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:54

Hell yeah. Yeah, it's that's that's my new acquisition from 1984.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:58

Oh fun. Fun god.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:01

How do you leave that room? It's the duck, it makes the dumbest sounds. It's like I love it's it's got like yeah, it's got some really good lessons for um for musicians as well as engineers. You can pro you can program it, and the way you program it is so counterintuitive and so and so weird that that there's like if you were like a UI designer or something like this, like looking at that, your mind would be blown. Like, why would they why would they do that? It's 1984, they have no nothing to go on.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:33

Oh, if it's counterintuitive. Like this is not gonna make sense, sir Lucas. Um, and it doesn't have to be the best, the number one. Um, but the first thing that comes into your head, what's the kindest thing anyone's done for you? The kindest thing? Yeah, it could be simple, little holding the door. I had a neighbor cover my car window with plastic once, and that still warms my heart.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:00

Why would they cover your window with plastic?

SPEAKER_03 1:02:02

Oh, because my window is down in the rain. Oh sorry, that didn't make any sense. My neighbor slashed my tires and it warms up. It was great.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:14

I talked about um my friend Dave. Um that's definitely up there. The day-to-day courtesies that you know my wife does is amazing.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:24

Give us one example prove it.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:29

Unless you let me sleep in today. So that was good. Um the uh the the kindest thing though? Yeah, I don't I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:39

Uh what's one of the nicest thing Levi's done for you in the past month?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:43

Ooh. In the past month?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:45

Yeah, so just something that pops up that you were like, thanks, bud.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:50

Uh he never fights me when I want to go out and have pizza.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:54

So wait and take one for the team, kids.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:58

So that's above and beyond.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:02

But still, that's big for a teenager that's got, you know, so many other things going on.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:07

He regularly fills the car up with gas. Uh um uh this is uh not not the cheapest time to be buying gas.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:14

No. Oh, so he pays for it.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:17

Well, he pays for the gas.

unknown 1:03:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:19

Oh, that's nice. Okay. I wasn't sure if it was like going on your credit card or something. No, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:24

He he pays for the gas. Um that was that was part of that was part of ideal, but I haven't had to kind of like remind him about it. So that's that's really nice.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:31

That's really impressive. Seriously.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:34

Great to not have to worry about that.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:37

Um that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:39

Yeah, he's working on his resume right now. He's working on his um all all the graduation thank you cards. Um, and so yeah, that's that takes some pressure off me and his mom to share. Um you know, I said earlier that um you don't remember like a lot of the diaper changing, um a lot of that kind of like like uglier stuff, maybe. And you maybe you don't remember the um the nice things too, but it has an effect. It has it kind of it it drives that instinct.

unknown 1:04:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:14

Wow. Sounds like you've got a delightful family, Lucas. I know.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:18

You you did a good job raising that boy, and I've always said that. He's a good, good kid. Yeah, he's a good kid. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:26

Snaps for Levi. But yeah. Snaps for David too, or Dave and his family as well for helping your wife letting you sleep in. Hell yeah. That's nice.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:38

Yeah, really comfortable with it. Lucas, thank you so much for coming on today and sharing your story. Uh we are gonna have you on again. I want to talk about your podcast. Ooh, I think that that's definitely a lot of people can relate to right now. Well, I mean, anybody that's pivoting careers, but when you're uh say, let's just say Gen X, because we've been talking about that. But when you find yourself not retired yet, what do you do? So Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:08

You can't you can't retire.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:10

Yeah. So everyone go check out that podcast, Not Retired Yet, by Lucas Smith. It's fantastic. Um Courtney, thank you so much. Uh, if anybody has questions, you can always email us at that wasn't the plan pod at gmail.com. Please go out there, rate, review, give us five stars. We'd love it. You can always reach us through our website or on the social medias. But Lucas, Courtney, thank you again. It was wonderful. Thank you, Emily. Thanks, Lucas. What a fun, what a fun, yeah, what a fun hang sesh.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:42

Yeah, yeah, thanks a lot for having me.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:44

Okay. Bye, everybody. Bye. Thanks for listening to That Wasn't the Plan. If you found it helpful or at least mildly entertaining, a quick grading review and a click on the subscribe button would be lovely. And it genuinely helps us. And if a friend comes to mind, please share. Until next time. Bye.