SPEAKER_04 0:04

That wasn't the plan.

SPEAKER_03 0:10

Hello, Courtney Holland. Hello, Emily Wade. How are you dear? I'm well. How are you doing today? Good.

SPEAKER_04 0:18

I'm good. Good.

SPEAKER_03 0:20

I'm good.

SPEAKER_04 0:24

So far, so good. Yeah? It's still early. Not for me early.

SPEAKER_02 0:29

It's noon here. Yeah. So That's true.

SPEAKER_04 0:31

But it that's still early, I suppose, or unless you've been up since five. Nay.

SPEAKER_02 0:37

Nay, friend. No, I woke, I woke with all the dogs, and my husband gently was like scurried them out. He was like, it's 8 a.m. What time do you want to get up? And I was like, I need 30 minutes. And then he took the dogs away. I know. I'm spoiled. I'm a little jealous. I I see, I do realize how wonderful and how easygoing my life is right now. So I'll take it.

SPEAKER_04 1:02

Sounds like you have a wonderful partner who you can communicate with. And that is something to be admired.

SPEAKER_02 1:10

Well, that's good. It's a work in progress forever. It makes me so excited for our guest.

SPEAKER_04 1:15

Yeah, I know. I'm so excited for our guest. Before I forget, thank you everyone for tuning in to That Wasn't the Plan podcast. That wasn't the plan to not welcome you to that wasn't the plan. I know. I think we've just been so excited to have our guest on today. I'm completely raw script.

SPEAKER_03 1:31

Here we go once again. Welcome. Nobody's driving the bus.

SPEAKER_04 1:39

Well, today we have the lovely Daisy Fuljam. I know Daisy from the film industry here in Seattle, Washington. She is a is was a wardrobe stylist. Um she had an awesome production company that she owned and was the managing partner of for several years. She is a wonderful mother of two, a devoted wife, a lovely human, a wonderful friend. Um, and a few years ago, she had decided to downsize her company. And I think after some realization and much thought and reflection, she decided to go back to take some schooling and training and become a sex and relationship coach, which I think we can all appreciate. Who doesn't need that, right? I I mean, and it's not just don't think of it and in terms of like you and your partner, but I think of it in terms of relationship with yourself, relationship with your friends, with family, with everybody that you encounter.

SPEAKER_02 2:42

So sex with yourself, sex with your friends, sex with your family, right? Like all of it.

SPEAKER_04 2:50

So, Daisy, thank you so much for coming onto the podcast and sharing your story with us today. Welcome, welcome.

SPEAKER_01 2:59

Hello, thank you so much for having me. What a treat. I want to tell you something that I was started listening to this podcast like a week or so ago. I was, I uh I do still do a lot of wardrobe styling and I was at our studio and I had hours of restocking to do. So I was like, oh, now's the time. I can listen to Anna's podcast. And I knew I wanted to be on it the second you talked about Tani Katane and the White Snake video in Espy's I can't remember what episode that was.

SPEAKER_04 3:35

Uh what uh the last virgin episode.

SPEAKER_01 3:39

Yes. Yes. And I was like, I knew I loved Emily. Now I love her even more. Tani Katane. Doing slithering over a Jaguar who doesn't want that.

SPEAKER_04 3:51

When I was a kid, that is who I wanted to be. I was like, I want to be that girl. I want to be that girl. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:57

I'm a little embarrassed, but yes, that's exactly who I wanted to be.

SPEAKER_04 4:01

Yeah. And did I turn out to? Absolutely not. You're pretty close. There was some time back in my 20s and 30s, but not anymore.

SPEAKER_02 4:12

I disagree. I see it in you still, Emily. All right, go get me a white Corvette.

SPEAKER_04 4:17

Yeah listing. Whatever it was.

SPEAKER_01 4:20

I think it was a Jaguar. Was it a Jaguar? Okay. I'll double check. I'll get back to you. I can get down on the Jaguar. It was classy.

SPEAKER_02 4:30

Classy. Yeah. For sure. Per white snake always. I mean, duh.

SPEAKER_01 4:37

No. Anyways, I loved. I loved your podcast. It was so fun.

SPEAKER_04 4:41

Thank you so much. That means a lot. It always moves me when people say that they really enjoy the podcast. Because, you know, I don't talk to a lot of people about it. So it's great to hear that. Um so Daisy, I just kind of want to get into it. Uh it was definitely not the plan for you to start a new career at the age of 54, was it?

SPEAKER_01 5:04

No. No. And I think I sent this to you in an email about like, I do feel like I have a life full of, oh man, that's not what I was planning. That's not right. That wasn't the plan. Wow. Okay, now what? Uh my parents always have had their own business since I was a little kid. So I kind of grow up with, you know, when you have your own business, there's a lot of that. Like, oh shit, oh, we didn't expect that. That didn't, that's not in our plan. And and so I think uh I definitely have a little bit of a constitution for having to pivot a little bit, but just growing up with those parents who didn't have like a stable, quote unquote stable um, you know, corporate job that we we think are stable, but they're not usually very stable. But it was a different topic. So yeah. Uh yeah. Um a few years ago, I suddenly found myself, you know, with some extra time on my hands. And after really downsizing, and we still have our little company and do little projects, but I was like, wow, what am I gonna do? And I just needed my um brain to go someplace else. The last year had been really, really stressful. Just that was a really difficult time. It feels awful to downsize. It's just like, oh yeah. Um and so I really wanted my brain to go somewhere else for a while. And this is some topics and even like psychology and sociology. I've been dancing around for years, you know, dipped my toes into it in my 20s with a lot of college classes, and I'm just easily distracted by shiny fun things. So I never followed through with any of those degrees, but I've always done a lot of work with people. So I'm a certified yoga teacher. Um, I love wardrobe styling because I love working with actors. I love working on the crews, I love collaborative work, like anything with humans. I never want to be by myself sitting at a computer. Like that's just not who I am. So as I'm suddenly working at home again with not a lot of vision of what the next five years are gonna hold. And then being also like 54, my husband and I really thinking about what do we want the next five years to look like, the next 10 years to look like. Like we have an opportunity to kind of push pause here and think about what we want it to look like. Fantastic. That's actually really exciting. And so if you can kind of think, you know, get your brain around it a little bit, like, oh, this is actually a gift. Yeah. And not not everything is a gift when it goes off the rails, you know, but um, that often is. It can be. Yeah, it certainly can be. So I had already talked to my therapist a number of times of a wonderful therapist. Shout out to Randy. Randy.

SPEAKER_00 8:09

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 8:10

I had asked him like two years before, I was like, Can you get paid to just hug people? He's like, Yeah. I was like, I think I'd be really good at that. He's like, Yeah, you would. And I was like, Randy, I really want to do that. And you know, then whatever. So I like sex coaching, because I knew I didn't want to go back to school like for four years. So I was like looking, looking at the coaching route, and also coaching just has a little bit different flavor to it. Um, I literally just Googled one day like sex coaching programs. Um yeah. Two of them popped up, and I sat down with my my husband, and I was like, I kind of want to do this, like just to let my brain do something else for a little while and to feed my little soul a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 8:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:00

But it's kind of expensive. I don't think I should do it. I don't know, it's really time consuming. And he's like, honey, why wouldn't you do it? And what would you tell our kids, or what would you tell me if it was just something we wanted to learn? You would absolutely encourage us to do it. I was like, Oh, yeah, you're right. I had to kind of take my own advice. And so then I signed, we went on a trip, the four of us, which was lovely. And I came back and I signed up and it started like the next week. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 9:32

And yes.

SPEAKER_01 9:33

I really, even then, I was like, oh, this is gonna be really fun, and I'm gonna really enjoy learning this. I'm excited. And then after the first weekend, um, this long, like three-day weekends, all online. Um, I was just hooked. I felt like this was what I had been looking for for a really long time. Oh wow, and I was like, how am I gonna get to do this? Can I do this?

SPEAKER_04 10:01

Like so and you're making it happen. Yeah. I know. Making it happen. It was really fun. That's awesome. I feel like people are going to have assumptions the moment they hear like sex and relationship coach. How is how is that different from therapy?

SPEAKER_01 10:20

That's a great question. It's really, I like to say that it's kind of therapy adjacent. Um, you know, and I don't know if you know a bunch about life coaching. It's also very life, you know, very life coaching adjacent, but it's way more experiential. So a like a good example is therapists come in with a little bit more of a professional persona and where they're more like mentors, which is amazing. And I really everyone, I hope, can see a therapist at some time. It's just nice to have someone to talk to. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:58

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 10:59

Where with especially the training I went through, this coaching is much more about an like an actually entering an interpersonal relationship with your clients. Um, so your clients can begin to learn how to experience connection in a really healthy way.

SPEAKER_02 11:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 11:19

So a therapist might say, What would it be like if you and your partner did such and such, you know, fill in the blank? Where a sex coach might say something more like, let's try that right now, in person, you and me together. So let's say it's a conversation around like consent or boundaries, how to have that with your partner. You might just talk about that with your therapist, but you would actually practice that with me. We would practice what is it like to have a consent conversation together. I would it's like role-playing. Oh wow. That's hopeful. It is because like you can know intellectually how to have that conversation. Right. But if you aren't actually practicing it, so my favorite thing is to work with people that have a therapist, like and working with their therapist is really amazing because they're learning. Um, you know, I don't treat, you know, I don't diagnose, I don't treat disorders or anything like that. So when someone's been doing work with therapists, they have all this intellectual knowledge about what's going on with themselves. But then to be able to put things into practice is it's kind of game-changing for a lot of people. Yeah. I mean, we learn by doing, right? Doing. Yes, yes. Seeing, not just thinking about it.

SPEAKER_00 12:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:37

So is that kind of what a typical session with you might look like is just a lot of um practice of whatever, you know, your clients are coming to you for.

SPEAKER_01 12:48

Yeah, yeah. And, you know, it really depends on clients and what they're coming in with. Um, and there's always a lot of talking, you know, getting to know each other and really building that trust and um especially them trusting me and knowing that I am a hundred percent on their team and I'm there to just help them grow their level of intimacy, vulnerability, all of that. And yeah, most sessions would include at least one sort of practice.

SPEAKER_03 13:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 13:24

What's the most common thing like people come to you for? Is it what they think they're coming to you for, or does it wind up being something else? That's a good question, too.

SPEAKER_01 13:33

Uh, it's all over the board, right? But I think when it comes down to it, people just want to connect better. They want to connect with their friends, with their romantic relationships. They want to show up better and they don't know how. We just all want to be seen and heard and loved. Yeah. So it's, I mean, it's all over the place. It's everything from, you know, I've been divorced for 10 years and now I'm starting to date again finally. How do I even do that? Or, you know, I'm struggling with my sexuality. I don't know, I'm having these feelings. I think what it so much of it comes down to we get so like caught up in these old narratives, the narratives that we were all given about who we're supposed to be as men and women. And I do work with a lot of people in kind of midlife, although I do have a lot of I have younger clients and I do have some older clients. But midlife tends to be what I'm seeing the most of right now. And we're at we get to this point and we're like, wait, is this the life I really wanted? Is this what it is? And what if it's not? What if it means if I don't want to work like that anymore? Or if I don't want to be married anymore, or if I don't want to be, I don't know, fill in the blank. I want to be different somehow. And how do I make that happen? And sometimes that takes a lot of undoing some of those stories and expectations of who we're told we're supposed to be.

SPEAKER_04 15:07

Right. So you wrote something to me, and I think this is kind of in the same um thread that the patriarchal society wants us to hate ourselves and invite ourselves. I interpreted that as women, but I also think men probably fall into that as well. Um can you talk more about that?

SPEAKER_01 15:28

Yeah. I have such a soft spot in my heart for men. I love working with men. I love working with women too, but we all uh we're women here, right? And we kind of, I think, at least since the late 70s, 80s, we're getting a lot more message around like we can do whatever we want, right? We can work, we can have kids, we can have a family, we can have full careers, we can do it all. It's really hard.

SPEAKER_00 15:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:55

Um like so the story has changed a little bit for women, and we're way more, I think, so much more freedom to express our feelings more and to be more vulnerable. And but that's the story hasn't changed for men. Like they're still living with the story that comes from the patriarchy, that they're providers, they have to be strong, they can't show any sign of weakness, there's no vulnerability. If you're not earning enough or taking care of your family the right way, then what are you? Where's your value? And that they just haven't gotten much of a new story around that.

SPEAKER_00 16:34

So true.

SPEAKER_01 16:36

Yeah. So when I see men, you know, in their 40s, 50s, they often I ask them like what they really want, because they're usually in some transition already. And they don't they don't know what they want because they've never done anything except what they thought they were supposed to do. That has just been passed down generation after generation. And this is what you do. I never even considered what I wanted. I just did what I was supposed to do. And well, that's not that's not really a full life. Like really, you know, you're not really living. So we definitely have to spend some time undoing a lot of those stories for men and women both. And it's really hard. It's hard to do because we don't we like to have a narrative, we like to have a story to cling on to. Like this is what we're supposed to do.

SPEAKER_00 17:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:27

And if there's not anything new there or a new path, if we can't see what the new path looks like, it can be really, really hard and really scary. Yeah. And there's such fear around not being accepted and not being loved from everyone, from men and women both.

SPEAKER_02 17:44

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:45

We all just want to be loved.

unknown 17:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:48

It's true, and seen for who we actually are, but that's very difficult for us to come out of our shells and be our true authentic selves. Um I'm gonna fumble this because I'm not quite sure how what I'm trying to say here, but I feel like as we get older and we're in those patterns you were just talking about, that it's a comfort zone, but it's also a place of settlement. Like we have settled for this life and we've been in it for a long time, and we're terrified of leaving that.

SPEAKER_02 18:20

Yeah. For sure. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 18:24

Um hundred percent.

SPEAKER_02 18:26

I I went for about seven years where um I'd gotten into recovery, but then nothing was changing. I was working at the most stable job I've ever worked at, and I was like, I am terrified of not leaving this life and doing what feels right. I'm terrified to stay and I'm terrified to go. So I was just like, and honestly, it was the universe telling me, you need to stay where you are, you need to get some stability. Like I hadn't been in a state, I hadn't lived anywhere longer than a year, two years. So this was like a good stretch. And I also want to point out before I forget, oh, Daisy, I'm so grateful that the snippet that you talked about, you know, not only women have, because we all women are really getting a voice now of like not falling into that caretaker, fixing everything, being the hero. I I feel it that women like we're talking more, we're communicating more about it, and we're getting more like, hmm, I felt compassion for men because I have married into a family where it's uh my husband, he has four boys and one daughter, and they dominate. They dominate, like conversations, they dominate. And so to hear that, I'm like, I have to remember that. Like, I need that compassion for them because I get really like worked up and protective of the girl because I'm like they just they just talk all over every they talk over each other, and it's like who can get louder, you know. And I so anyway, I just it resonated with me. I was like, God, that's that's a really important I hear that today because I've been super like I'm I'm on my feminist tip and I always have been, and now I'm married and I'm taking care of a home and I'm cooking dinner, but I'm actually enjoying it. Like it's kind of really fun. So I'm a house. Yeah. Well, and luckily they're older, they're uh young adults, and they're all under 30. And I lived alone for 12 years, single. Wow. That's a huge change. Right. And I just was like, Daisy, I was like, I am the most delightful person ever. Oh my God. I'm always in a good mood. I'm just, I'm wonderful. And I was like, oh, it's because I literally do nothing but hang out with my baby dog, and you know, I don't so I'm learning a lot of patience. I'm learning also about the adventure of it all. Like it's such a wonderful adventure. So my point is I just really appreciate just mentioning, yeah, men really they do. I think of my dad, and like he's the provider, he was military, and now that he's lost his physical strength, he's really struggling like with his worth because he put so much worth into like doing all that stuff.

SPEAKER_01 21:11

So yeah, my I have two kids. My daughter's the oldest, and then and she was wild and feral and like just like such a unique, beautiful individual when she was a little kid. I mean, she still is, but she just she would talk about things not going as planned. I thought I was gonna have like this little girl who wanted to go to the library for you know book time, and she's scaling the bookshelves and you know, running around. And then I had this little boy, and I only have a sister. I have this little baby boy, and I'm like, how? At that point, you know, I had been married for more than 10 years, and I'm married to a really lovely man who shares really openly about. Struggles of that of the stories that he still carries about having to fix everything and having to be in control and know the answers. Right. And I'm looking at this baby boy. I'm like, how am I gonna keep him from getting crushed by the world? Like, I wanna know what he's feeling. I wanna know his desires and hopes and dreams, what he really wants and not what he thinks. And then I've always had a really good relationship with my dad. You know, it's he's just always was a really um foundation of a very safe, secure person. Like this, I know I'm always safe here. But I also, when you mentioned your dad, uh, my dad's 84 and he just barely stopped working. And he's had multiple businesses. And I talked to him, I remember like five years ago, and he was getting he was so uncomfortable as he was kind of scaling down his work because he said, if I'm not providing, where's my value? Yeah. And I was like, oh dad, like you've given us you're so valuable, like, right? And it has and and the work is just a sliver of it, but that's just what he saw. That's all he could think about was if I'm not providing the way I have for 75 years, what does that mean for me? I mean, that is some really heavy stuff, right? How do we undo that?

SPEAKER_04 23:37

I feel like that's in the same vein, sort of, you know, your value equates a little bit to being ashamed of stepping down from something. Um, and shame seems to be like a the thing underneath almost everything. Daisy, do you know what that actually like does physically in our bodies? Just living with this shame that I'm not good enough or, you know, sex is bad, everything that, you know, shame is just this big nasty ball. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:05

Yeah, shame is really powerful and it's it's so prevalent in every area. Like I think we kind of tend to think of shame around as sex, but we're shamed about everything, right? We're shame about what we eat, what we don't eat, what we wear, what we don't wear, if we worked out hard enough, if we have a good enough job, if we need if we want to leave our job, if we're not happy in our relationship anymore, if we have too much sex, if we don't have enough sex, like we're there's shame around everything, how we parent.

SPEAKER_02 24:33

Um gosh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:35

And when we live with that so much shame, especially when we don't have an outlet for it, we can't talk about it. It really just infects all of our life. Like it affects our creativity, it affects how we move through the world, it affects really doing what you really want to do, you know, being who you really want to be, being alive. Um, so like you just can't express yourself fully if you're carrying a lot of shame, which we all do. I was gonna tell you about one of the practices that we do. And when I'm talking with someone and I can tell that they've got some real shame stuff, we'll do a shame share. It's it's awful. Oh.

SPEAKER_03 25:22

Tell me, tell me hard.

SPEAKER_01 25:23

I remember when I did it. It was like in a group, my small group in class, and there's 10 of us. Oh, wow. And you have to share something that you're really shameful about, and they all just look at you. And then when you're done.

SPEAKER_04 25:40

They don't say anything, they just look at you.

SPEAKER_01 25:42

They're just looking at you.

SPEAKER_04 25:44

I've got three.

SPEAKER_01 25:46

Yeah. And then when you're done, then they they they celebrate you. Sometimes they can join you by saying, like, oh yeah, I've experienced that. They listen with empathy, not judgment. And then you're like, wow, I feel actually that was I almost barfed during that. But now I feel so much better. And I, when I witness someone, even if we're not doing like that kind of formal, structured shame share, when someone tells me something that they've never told anyone before because they have so much shame around it. You physically see them be lighter.

SPEAKER_03 26:30

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 26:30

And they're like, they soften. And especially when I just love them more for it. So it's it's a really powerful thing.

SPEAKER_04 26:43

Is there a way that somebody can do that, like listening to this on their own or something? That, you know, and so they don't have to do it with another person, but maybe just to help them.

SPEAKER_01 26:54

Yeah, shame. You can call me anytime.

SPEAKER_00 26:59

Oh, Daisy.

SPEAKER_01 27:00

Oh boy, Daisy.

SPEAKER_02 27:02

I would call you every day. Your voice. I can't even tell you how wonderful it is. Oh, thanks, you guys. Yeah, just we'll we'll flash your phone number across the screen. There you go. There you go. That's gonna be great.

SPEAKER_00 27:17

It's busy, dang it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:21

Um, is there a way to do it alone? I don't think so.

SPEAKER_02 27:26

Because part of what we do it alone every day, right?

SPEAKER_01 27:30

That's right. Like you're telling yourself your shame stories all the time. Like, oh, it's running through your head. And it fusters, right? It gets worse and worse. But the moment we can shine light on it, like shame can't really grow with a bunch of light on it. And once you say it, it's it dissipates, not entirely, but even a little bit is a relief. And the more like I use a lot of laughter around my shame. So I joke about my shame. Like I and sometimes Tony's like, God, did you have to say it like that? I was like, Yeah, I did. Like, that's how I'm gonna get through this. And I'm laughing and it's hot, it's hard. And he's like, Okay, I'm I'm understanding your process, but wow. Um laughter is a huge thing for me. Like it's it's really dissipates shame to kind of make fun of myself and my shame. Oh, yeah. Uh yeah. So I don't, I don't think it can really be dumb. But I, you know, when I'm just doing it to myself in my own head, it's not fun. It doesn't work very well. And it just perpetuates that story. It just grows more. Right. Yeah. It doesn't go anywhere.

SPEAKER_04 28:48

Um I feel like that kind of plays in a little bit with uh the purity culture that we have here in the US that you know comes back from the Puritans who came to this country a few hundred years ago and that it's inherently harmful, but it's more complicated than that. Like, do you want to talk about just sort of the culture that we live in and yeah, I do.

SPEAKER_01 29:18

Um yeah. I'm like, where do I start?

SPEAKER_02 29:23

Right.

SPEAKER_01 29:24

Uh you know, I did grow up in a really religious home, very conservative. Um you weren't supposed to have sex before you got married. Um, but I'm a little bit older, so I miss that purity culture, like the purity ring and all of that that came about 10 years later. Um, thank God I miss that. It was just like took it to this whole other level. Talk about shaming around your sexual desires. Like we are sexual beings. We are sexual creatures. We all got here from that. Yeah, I think that part of that purity culture is that, and this kind of comes back to like the patriarchy wants us to hate ourselves. If we're experiencing pleasure, um, and I don't mean just sexually, like just pleasure, whether it's your kickball team or your knitting group or sex in a 10-person orgy, you know, like whatever. Um yeah, you are you just are loving yourself so much more, right? And you're experiencing joy and connection, and we fe we heal so much more in connection with others. And so I think this wanting for people to not experience pleasure is just a way to keep us miserable and seeking out like ways to make ourselves better.

unknown 30:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:48

You know, I mean, there's just so many aspects to doing things in the dark, not telling people about it, you know, finding it. And then and then because we're not able to share it with people, then that shame comes back to us that what I'm doing is wrong.

SPEAKER_02 31:06

Right.

SPEAKER_04 31:06

And so it's just this cyclical thing that just makes us sicker and sicker and sicker, like in our heads, because they're telling us, you know, we need to be pure, we need to be doing this, but we don't want to because it's in our nature, our animalistic nature, not to be. We are one of the few animals that have sex and do things for pleasure, and we can do that instead of just simply procreation and be done with it.

SPEAKER_02 31:32

Right. What this made me think of is I find it to be one of the most powerful things I could have learned as a kid that would have saved me from a massive amount of shame is knowing that it was normal to masturbate as a kid. Because I didn't know. Well, initially I thought what happen what happened was that I was pregnant. I thought that thing that happened that I immediately felt shame over, which was caused from you know childhood abuse and but so it would be like ecstasy, shame. So that was like, and I'm my mom very well could have mentioned, but you know, boys, it's almost like completely everybody kind of talks about it, acknowledges it, not really, but like not with girls. And yeah, I just think that that would have been uncomfortable for someone to have that conversation with me. But to know that I wasn't the only one experiencing it because I also thought I was the most special and the absolute worst thing in the world, you know, both at the same time. Yeah. So so it's wild.

SPEAKER_01 32:36

Like our culture is so weird about pleasure. Like, would you guys think about pleasure? Do you think that you only deserve pleasure? Like pleasure is a reward for a job well done. Or you guys might not. You guys might have a much broader idea around pleasure. But so many people feel like the only time they get to experience pleasure is if they've done enough. Whatever that is.

SPEAKER_02 33:01

They worked out and I understand that. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:05

As I've gotten older, I've been able to experience pleasure. And, you know, that doesn't mean that it's all sexual, like so many different types of pleasure in my life. And it could have been going through cancer that coming out, like I did come out a different person. And, you know, the way I view my life and live my life is totally different. And I do things that I'm like, I don't care what anyone else thinks about this. Like I will sit and huff on my cat for 10 minutes because I find it to beach pleasurable.

SPEAKER_03 33:34

Like she's so huffing on your cat. I need to know. I don't understand. It is like huffing. Like huffing gasoline. Yeah, you just put your face in their belly or whatever and she's like, oh, like inhale. She hates it. I can only do it for about five seconds, but oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:56

And like it makes me laugh. It gives me joy. And you know, then it's only because she's sitting right here that I it was the first thing that came to mind. But yeah, these silly little things that I'm like, I get pleasure from that. It brings me so much joy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:12

Yeah. There's just a lot of messages out there that we're not worthy enough to experience pleasure. You know, like we can't we don't get to experience pleasure unless we've gone to the gym enough or unless we finished all our work or all of our homework or whatever. Taking care of everybody else first. Then we can then we get to deserve. Then we are worthy of pleasure. But um, like pleasure is so much about just being alive and it really fills us up and makes us um helps build our resiliency and our strength and our capacity for joy, the more we can experience pleasure.

SPEAKER_00 34:55

So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:58

Yeah. Yeah. I'm all about like I'm such a pleasure advocate. Whatever your jam is, yeah. Jam away. Jam away. Yeah, you know, and and really doing the work around knowing so so much around kind of the philosophy of the school that I went to, not kind of, the philosophy, is all like the number one goal, I on the prize is intimacy, deeper intimacy. And intimacy isn't really um intimacy gets exchanged with the word sex a lot when people don't want to say sex. But sex is actually a practice of intimacy. So intimacy is deeply knowing yourself and others, having great awareness of who you are, meaning all the good, all the complicated, all the bright and sunny, all the dark pieces, knowing every piece of you, your triggers, your wounds, and then having a lot of love and empathy for those things and really building that about yourself, right? And then even acknowledging like where some of those defense mechanisms came from, you know, from very early on in childhood, some of us were literally trying to keep ourselves safe in the environment we were in. Some of us were just like, oh, we just are trying to fit in. We want to fit into our family structure, our social structure, our schools, our churches, whatever we were involved in. And so we often make um pieces of us really small, pieces of us that we think aren't acceptable. And depending on where you are in the world, that could all be look really different. Um so the whole philosophy around this coaching is really to get to gain deeper intimacy first with yourself, but acknowledging those wounds and those triggers, learning how to really care for yourself when you're being triggered. Like some people just want to avoid triggers and wounds, and I don't want anything to get stepped on, so I'm not gonna do this or that because I get triggered. But people, you can do all the work you want, but some of those triggers and wounds are still gonna be there. They just are. It's who we it's part of us. We can really learn how to tend to ourselves when those uh triggers or buttons are pushed. And once we do that, then we can actually begin to teach others how to care for ourselves. And when we can look at our friends, our romantic relationships with that same curiosity and that same, I want to know you, I want to know your good, your dark, all of it. I want to know all the contradictions and all the complexities, and to meet that with curiosity and joy and not judgment. It feels amazing to be seen by someone like that and to know yourself like that. So that's you know, just this deeper intimacy is always kind of like my number one goal with people is whatever they're dealing with. How can I get them to know themselves a little bit better and be kinder to themselves? Yeah, yes. So then they can teach others how to care for them and their buttons. Cause I mean, you know what it's like to be in a relationship. You're absolutely gonna step on somebody's little tender wound, no matter what, even if you're trying your damnedest not to. We're just human, right? We're gonna be messy and it's just more about how we clean those messes up. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 38:36

So what is like the real difference then between like self-improvement and self-love? Oh, is there? Because I think we're kind of sold one when we actually need the other. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 38:52

I think self-love has to come first. Okay. That's my personal opinion. I'm not a doctor. I think that we can read every self-help book, we can eat all the best food, we can meditate for hours, we can do every sort of practice that's supposed to make us more enlightened or better people and try to improve everything. But until we begin to really love ourselves and accept us for who we are. Not that we can't change. We all can change and grow and learn tools, but there are pieces of us that are just who we are. And if we can't love that, that's that's when it's hard. Like you just keep searching for something that, you know, why I'm doing all this stuff. Why don't I feel better? Well, let's look, let's get to know ourselves better and be nice to ourselves. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:47

Yeah. I'd love for you to jump in because you've said something several times on the podcast, then it always sits with me that you and not just yourself, but also Jonathan, your husband, you are your both of you are your own biggest fans. And that wasn't always the case for you.

SPEAKER_02 40:04

Talk about like your self-love journey. Um, I, yeah, I, you know, absolutely hated myself in my childhood, didn't know why, thought I was dirty, bad, like something was just, I was wrong. And um, it took a process of going through life and then living a life in addiction, and then getting, you know, really struggling to get into recovery. And then once I got into recovery, it started with me being like, I didn't drink last night, so I can eat all like I would let myself eat whatever I want. You, you decide, Courtney. So that that's where it started. Like, and also I would eat gobstoppers at night in in my in the bed. And I was like, I it's not alcohol, it's not crack, it's not cocaine. I I'm eating gobstoppers, and I would just let myself, and so it grew from there. And by no means am I perfect or, you know, it's still messy. I still have moments I have shameful, you know, things that you talked about before. I was like, oh yeah, oh yeah. Um, but yeah, I just started to really, and I think it had a lot to do with being single for a long period of time against my will. I would have loved to not have been single. But in that process of the absolute like devastation thinking, because I felt like I needed to be paired off. And every year in my 30s, I was like, it's never gonna happen. And I need to, what am I gonna do? I need to get okay with it. And so I had to like really like care about myself and like the heartbreak, the feeling of you know, mourning, the idea of the life with a shared partner. So, you know, I it took, you know, it did not happen overnight and it still isn't perfect, but um, because I get road rage and that concerns me. Um people who love themselves should not be getting road rage, but I don't know about that.

SPEAKER_01 42:00

Well, I don't, you know, also it's it's hard because we're we're inundated with messages all around us that we're not enough, that we're not good enough in every area, right? Physical appearance, what we do for work, how we do our relationship or our parenting. And also like that thing about being single, like our culture puts such value on being coupled. And people that are coupled are looked at differently. Like that shit's real. Like that is so real.

SPEAKER_02 42:35

It's so real. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:37

And there is a lot of shame around that. Um, what am I doing wrong? And it's like, well, yeah, what is wrong with that? That's just a story. People that are coupled are no more valuable than single people. That's just a story out there, and we don't have to buy into that. But if you can't really love who you are, that's hard to not buy into all of that.

SPEAKER_02 43:01

Absolutely. Um, and I also had this theory about having like a stable corporate job. Like I sat down, I thought about, I was like, Courtney, if you really wanted to be married right now, if you really wanted to be in a relationship right now, you could be in one.

SPEAKER_00 43:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:16

Like you could be in one. It might not be what you really want. Or same with jobs. Like I could have, I remember when I was out in LA struggling poor, and I was like, I could go back to the East Coast and I could work a corporate job. I could do that, but I don't want to. So this is a choice in a way that I'm making. I was like, yeah, it's not that I'm unlovable and so heinous and so disgusting and awful and that I couldn't pair off with somebody. No one had convinced me they were going to be more fun than me hanging out with myself and my dog.

SPEAKER_04 43:52

Oh, amen. Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 43:56

I just had no idea what a blast I am. Myself especially. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:03

And that is valuable. Like it has just as much value, I would argue, more value than being partnered with someone that you don't really like.

SPEAKER_02 44:13

Right.

SPEAKER_01 44:13

You know, or who you have to be small around. Like, yep.

SPEAKER_02 44:17

That's not cool. Oh God. It's not when I got to a place where I was so I wanted to be someone. Same with like when I'm on a plane and we have turbulence and I'm terrified. I used to always look look for the stewardess because they would look calm. So then I slowly started, I was traveling a lot, so I slowly wanted to be the person that people would look at. It didn't always work because sometimes turbulence is really scary. But um so I like felt that way about being single and still having a fucking blast and having more fun than I started to think. So it was almost like I was like, I really don't want a relationship. And then Bumble introduced me to that tall drink of water out there. And and it's so there's been moments where I mourned that life that I had, where I like worked at it for years, you know, and my baths at night, I would sit and look at a candle and just be like, you're doing a great job, Courtney. And one last thing I want to share about the image stuff. My teeth journey has been so hard and so because I I have implants on my top daisy, and then I have a tooth that is now falling out of my implant. Oh, it's an ongoing struggle. It's hilarious, but it's just ever never ending, it feels like. And um, it's that has kind of taken me back to a place of self-loathing because my teeth issues are self-inflicted, alcohol addiction, eating disorder, all of it, you know. But that's been something I've really tried to work on is like loving myself, yeah. Even though I'm like, look what you did. This is your fault. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:01

So that's really hard. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 46:03

Well, just keep loving yourself because you're you are a fantastic, fabulous person, Courtney. I love you so much. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:11

Um well and tooth or no tooth like pop it out. I should just pop it out, but it's staying in real good. Like I think I found a magical. I mean, I can't really chew hard things, but it's probably best because I eat too much candy. But that's okay. But Daisy, I would like you to turn your focus to Emily because uh we were on an episode once, and I I just figured Emily and the other gal, Sarah Beth SB, I was like, you guys are your biggest fans, right? You guys love yourselves. And they're like, um. And I was like, and like Emily, as you know, Daisy is such a freaking wonderful creature to have an email. Like Divine.

SPEAKER_04 46:54

And how you don't, yeah, divine. Oh, you ladies are sweet. You're gonna make me cry. Um, I was having some energy work done by another lovely individual named Daisy. There's something in that name that just makes you oh the person just so divine. And she said, you give, but you don't know how to receive love. And it stuck with me. And I don't know how to, I don't know how to do that. I don't know how to receive. I'm so used to giving everything. And it does weigh on me. But this is probably something I need to hire you for.

SPEAKER_02 47:33

No, I was like because I wanted to change the subject and talk about sex.

SPEAKER_04 47:41

But yeah, I it is hard. Um, I I do know that I give a lot, but it is difficult for me to receive back.

SPEAKER_01 47:47

And what you need to know is like that's really normal. Like a lot of people feel that win.

SPEAKER_04 47:53

And that makes me feel a little better. Like they really do.

SPEAKER_01 47:56

And that's that's part of the story. We've been fed forever, is that we're not worthy enough that we're not enough. And so we have to give and give and give. And yeah. So it's really it doesn't surprise me that you have that. I mean, I look at you and I can't believe that you don't just think you're the most amazing thing in the universe because you're so incredible in so many different ways. Um, but I think your experience is actually pretty normal. But um, there's a but there's something like You're still a freak for sure. I mean, totally. I am I am happy to fly that flag anybody that's gonna be. Right? Yeah, it's also like so much. I think um it's easy to give love. It's so much easier to give it sometimes than to let it in. And that is a practice in itself to really let yourself be loved.

SPEAKER_04 48:52

So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:53

There's a lot you could do around that.

SPEAKER_04 48:55

Yeah. All right. Um, but while we've got our sex coach here, I did want to kind of break into this territory a little bit. Um do it. So, how do we start having the sex we actually want instead of the sex we feel obligated to have?

SPEAKER_02 49:10

Thank you, Daisy. I'm listening.

SPEAKER_01 49:13

One of my favorite favorite topics.

SPEAKER_03 49:16

Yeah. Good.

SPEAKER_01 49:18

This was probably one of the most surprising weekends of all my training that I've been through was when we covered this topic because of what it reveals in people and how powerful it really is and what it shows. It's it's around really discovering your what we like to call your core desires. What is it that really turns you on? And there's ways to explore that, like to think about either if you watch porn, what kind of porn do you like to watch? And FII, there's a lot of great ethical porn out there. If you ever want a list, I have a great list for that.

SPEAKER_02 49:56

I love that list. I love too.

SPEAKER_01 49:58

Yeah, I'll send it to you guys.

SPEAKER_04 50:00

Um Okay. And listeners, we can get that to you. So just email us and we'll get you the ethical porn list.

SPEAKER_01 50:06

Another, and I'll credit, there's another wonderful coach in town who I borrowed that list from, and she said I could use it. So I'll make sure to include her name. Um, so what kind of porn are you drawn to? Like, that's a really good way to begin to explore what. Like when you're by yourself and you want to watch something, what is it that you watch? And it might be something you've never told or shared with anybody else. That's a really good hint. Or think about um a sexual experience that maybe you have had that was just like the hottest, most mind-blowing experience. What elements were there? So really thinking about that. But what that is is why, like, what makes us turn to sex? What do we want to have sex? Not like I like this position or that position, but more like, what do you want to feel? Like, what is it that you actually like emotionally? Feel physically. More feeling, like not a physical act, but more emotionally. Okay. Oh, what do you want to feel like? Like, there's lots of physical stuff that's great, but what is it? Do you want to feel desired? Do you want to feel special? Do you want to feel used? Do you want to feel um naughty? Do you want to feel like a good girl? Do you want to feel bad? Do you want to feel domineering? Yeah. Like bossy, in control. Do you want to just have someone cut? Do you want to like enter the celestial plane with somebody? You know, do you want to be in the planets and the stars? So sort of that's a way to start. I know, Courtney. I'm loving your face so much. It's so good.

SPEAKER_02 51:56

Because I am, I am thinking.

unknown 51:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:59

Like the thing.

SPEAKER_01 52:01

So when we start to really think about this, and it is kind of a journey. It's not, it's really, I mean, some people are like, oh, yep, yep, I know exactly right here. This is what I want. Exactly like this. That's okay. That doesn't happen for everyone. It's a little bit of a journey and an unfolding and discovery of, oh, right. I always seem to like these things, but that's rarely in my actual sex that I have regularly.

SPEAKER_04 52:30

So what would be a good way for someone to just tell their partner, like, this is kind of what I want, even if it's just the first little baby step to getting to that place? Like how even like the first sentence, like because it sometimes you just need to rip that band-aid off with like four little words, or how do you say it? Yeah, or just like first mention of it just to help, you know, the conversation start.

SPEAKER_00 52:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:59

Well, first you have to do a little bit of work like with yourself of okay, like really acknowledging that it is okay for me to ask for something that I want and really believe that it's okay, that you deserve, you are worthy to ask of a certain thing. But also your partner might not be able to do that for you. So you also kind of have to be okay with the answer being possibly no. And then what do you do with that disappointment, right? Because you are dealing with another human being. There's a lot of ways to bridge stuff. And depending on who your partner is, like, there's ways to have these conversations, and it's something that is really fun to practice. Like, hey, I'm thinking I want to explore such and such around sex. And I'm wondering if this is something that you would be open to. Or and there's there's lots of different ways to do it, but I kind of am more of a just a straightforward, honest type of person. Don't do it in bed, like at night when you're going to bed. Like exactly, yeah. You know, there's a lot of there's so much more pressure in that scenario. And you might get a response of like, oh my god, no. Right. Or sometimes when someone says, I'm not sure, maybe not right now, but maybe I'll think about it, and then maybe, you know, maybe it's something we could work in. And it sometimes can be so hard to just start that conversation because it feels so vulnerable, and the fear of rejection is really big. Um but if we can start from a place of curiosity again, like curiosity's always gotta be so important when you're dealing with yourself and somebody else. Coming from a loving place of yourself that you're worthy and it's okay that you're asking. Also being open and curious with your partner and what their reaction is. Sex is surprisingly so difficult for people to talk about. It's so tender for a lot of people, and rejection feelings pop up so fast. If the partner is like, I actually am not interested in that, but they don't want to say that because what would that mean? So it is, it can be uh dicey, but I always am like just pull the band-aid off, do it with love. It might, it's not gonna be perfect, you know. That's the thing is I think we also get really worried about saying something perfectly when sometimes we just have to say it and know that you might have to clean up some messiness around it. Um because there isn't a perfect way to do it. Yeah. And what you know, really thinking about like what would turn you on? What would give you an amazing orgasm? Because sometimes I think, especially when we have a lot of work going on, parenting, um, life stuff that happens. People get sick, people get cancer, people, you know, parents die, anything that's going on in our life, um, our country is struggling right now. That can make our vaginas want to just shrivel up and die, right?

SPEAKER_04 56:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:16

So how do we again, like, how do we care for ourselves during the these times of struggle? It's all I I really always am like, we just have to nurture these parts and that and realizing that there is value to your sexual energy flowing again. It's it's actually really good for you. It's good for your mental health, it's good for your physical health. Yes. Um, how can we nurture that? So think about are there ways that you could spend a little bit of time every day or every week, whatever that nurturing of your sexy side would be, how can you do that?

SPEAKER_04 56:55

How do, because this kind of goes into it, how do fashion and style play into reconnecting with your own sensuality? Because I feel like that's a three line in your life that doesn't get talked about enough and it may help.

SPEAKER_02 57:06

Yeah, and clearly I have mastered that.

SPEAKER_03 57:09

If you get you're so cute, Courtney.

SPEAKER_01 57:13

Courtney, I'm in love with your peachy pink overalls.

SPEAKER_02 57:20

I feel sexy in them. I love them because I'm always goosy down here.

SPEAKER_01 57:25

So that's the thing. It's like it's not about trends or wearing, it's it's what makes you feel good. What makes you feel sexy? What makes you more connected to your sensual side, your sexual side? And I have always loved fashion. I've been in fashion on and off since I was 16 years old. I swear I change my clothes like three times a day, even if I'm at home all day. I think it's such a way to express ourselves. Um, we're all really creative beings, and a lot of people don't think about what they're putting on because it's not their jam. But I notice when I work with, well, even working with actors, putting them in certain clothes, how it changes their whole persona and their whole feeling. But also as a stylist, working with personal clients, as someone who worked retail for years in a really small boutique, like putting something on someone that suddenly they see themselves in a little bit different way, and it like lights something up and like, oh, they feel funny and they feel good. Like there's just so much we can do around just what we put on can really shift how we're feeling. Absolutely. Sometimes I'm like, is that just me that feels like that? But it's not. I I've seen it, I've watched it, and I really loved when I get to include a little bit of styling in my sex and relationship coaching. If someone is like, yeah, like I don't even know what to wear anymore, like I'm paramenopausal, and I've totally lost my mojo, and I don't even know what my fashion is anymore, and I don't even know how to get dressed for a date. You know, I was like, oh, okay, let's talk about that.

SPEAKER_04 59:09

So Oh, that's that's fascinating. I never like put it together, but yeah. Oh, I love it.

SPEAKER_01 59:17

Yeah, you know, like I I wear this, I have this tiger ring um that I wear a lot when I'm really just feeling like, and I'm gonna use a quote from a friend of mine. I want to bring my like big cat energy. Ooh. Because it's heavy and I can feel it all the time. So I'm like, oh yeah, it reminds me like to stay connected to myself, to stay connected to that inner little flow of sexy energy that I have in there that actually makes me show up better. It makes me better at my job, it makes me better at parenting, it makes me better at talking to the mailman, you know, or my neighbor.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:00

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:01

And it just makes me feel better. Yeah, big cat energy.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:06

Yeah. The BCE.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:08

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think we can do a lot with um clothes to help us feel certain ways. Absolutely. So you know, you maybe, Courtney, you keep your overalls on, but you just put some pasties on underneath it.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:26

Oh my god. I don't know. I would love that.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:30

Just or a little lace top instead. You know, whatever feels good for you. Whatever that would be for you.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:38

I certainly have a plethora of lingerie uh because uh my friends threw me a shower when Jonathan and I got engaged. And it was, I was like, let's get lingerie. And so I have a lot. And just a funny side note, I it was a large amount of the women that I love in my life. And my mother and my brother, he just sent a gift to be funny, um, gave me the most like raunchy lingerie. My mom, it like a tiny little tie and the tiniest little pleated skirt, like Catholic schoolgirl. Mom straight up, probably ain't ethical porn, I want to say. And then my brother sent me coconuts and a grass skirt that is like the tumor and a leg. So I had those. I had to keep them at my apartment in Blacksburg because I was too afraid to bring them in the house. Jonathan would be like, ah, and I'm like, we don't, he's wonderful. I don't really need a lot. He doesn't need the lingerie. He's, you know, he's he's got a very healthy sex drive.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:43

But what about you? Would that make would that help you feel more?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:48

It would be hilarious. Like I put them on and I'm like, who wouldn't want to have sex with this? Big girl in a little skirt. But some of the stuff I have I do, I do enjoy. Um but I end up being a tired a lot of the time. I'm tired and I wanna just I know.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:10

I know.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:11

Um it is my vibe now, and I embrace it and it's okay. And I'm gonna nurture it because it's okay to feel the way I do. And he, God bless him, he is so well versed in perimenopause. He had no idea. He had no idea. But I'm educating him.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:30

Yeah. It's brutal, my poor husband. I've put him through hell.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:34

Uh it is brutal.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:36

It is brutal.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:37

Um, but it's exciting to be moving, to be changing. I like that. I like that part. Like, yeah. I like that my body's changing. It just feels liberating in a way. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:49

Yeah. Um, Daisy, what's the one thing anyone listening could do this week? Like small, practical, doable to start prioritizing their own pleasure, self-love, that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:59

Yeah. Um there's a really simple little exercise called embodiment breathing. And you can just, I would just do it maybe every time you're leaving the house. Just take a couple minutes. Or if you're really struggling with something, like you're really having a hard time with something, just take a couple minutes and breathe deeply into your body. Just sitting and breathing and noticing where your energy is in your body.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:32

Just being aware of it, connecting to yourself. More we can be embodied, and we're living more in our body and a little bit less in our brain, which our brain is doesn't do us any favors most of the time. Sure don't. You know, so really just connecting to your body. So sometimes for me, I like to take that moment, even like if I've left my house and I'm in the car, like just sit in the car for a second, take a couple deep breaths. Do I even know like what's happening in my body right now? Can I even feel it? Do you know how it is? We're busy. We have so many demands on us and to just connect for a minute. And then I'm always surprised how people react to me if I've done that. Because I'm more engaged, I'm more like sparkly, I'm more alive, I'm way more um likely to look at a stranger in the eye, say hello, become open a door for someone. Heck yeah. Strike up a conversation in the line to get coffee. And that is so satisfying. It's connecting, right? I'm connecting with somebody again, which is amazing. Um I yeah, I'm always surprised. I don't know why I'm still surprised by it. If I've actually taken that time, that intentional time to check in with myself, notice where my energy is, feel it in my body, feel it all the way down to my pelvic floor, feel that whole energy. And then staying connected to it as I move out into the world. Yeah, pretty great.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:16

So beautiful and inspiring. Like we have family dinner tonight, so there it's gonna be a full house, and I'm gonna do that so I can be more sparkly for them this evening.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:25

Yeah, and more sparkly for you. But you will feel better.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:30

Like you that's all I really care about. Yeah, you have to put your own oxygen mask on first. Yes, that's right. Yeah.

unknown 1:05:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:42

Well, is there anything else you want to touch on, Courtney, Daisy? I mean, I have more questions, and we could stay here for another four hours if we really want to. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:50

We're just scratching the surface.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:53

I know. We need to have a two parter. This has to be. I think we do. I think we need to have you back on and um like. Really kind of get into some of the nitty gritty because this was just surface level stuff.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:05

Yeah. Anytime. I would love it. Just let's let's uh you know prioritize pleasure a little bit more.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:12

Absolutely. Amen. Yeah. Okay. Daisy, I have a question for you for um and you're you're so good at being connected with yourself. So whatever the first thing that comes to your mind, it doesn't have to be major, it doesn't have to be the absolute best. What was the kindest thing? What's one of the kindest things that anyone's ever done for you?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:33

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:39

Um this goes so in theme here. I was living in LA and we got pregnant, which we were being mindfully careless. And I was planning on having my daughter at home. Planning on having her like in my apartment in a pool of water, and it's gonna be beautiful and amazing. And then 10 days before she was born, I woke up in a pool of blood and I had to go to the hospital. She was fine, totally fine. But I had to have a cesarean. I had placenta previa, there was no way for her to to come out. Her route was blocked. We didn't have a lot of support in LA, like we hadn't been there very long, and I had a big dog. I just was like, oh my god, my I don't know what I'm gonna do. So I called my very best friend Lori, who lives up here, and she was on a plane within a couple hours and came and took care of the dog, took care of everything, brought me magazines, brought me food. Like just she dropped everything to come and take care of me. Like she just showed up for me in such a beautiful way. I could just like recover and take care of this brand new little tiny baby because I knew everything else was taken care of.

unknown 1:07:55

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:56

So what's her name? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:58

Her name's Lori. Lori Graham. Shout out to Lori. Oh, to Lori.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:06

Wow. She's beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:10

Yeah. I met Lori when uh I was 19 when I first moved to Seattle. And she's still my my bestie.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:18

That's so cool. Yeah. Especially enduring friendships like that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:22

Yeah. That's a great question.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:25

Daisy, are you accepting new clients right now? I am. And where can people find you if they want to reach out to you? Like Instagram or do you have a website?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:35

I do have Instagram. I do have a website. Email.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:39

Uh what is your website? We can throw that up in the show notes.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:42

Oh yeah. It's uh uh it's just Daisy Fulgem. Daisy Fulgem.com? I guess just Daisy. So it's just my name.com.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:53

Daisy Fulgem.com.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:55

Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:56

F-U-L-G-H-A-M, correct? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:00

And you say my name right every time. It's amazing. Nobody says my name right. How many people say it? Fulgum, fuljum, fulgrum. They always like to put an R in it. Fulgum.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:13

That's weird.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:14

Which is fine. It's a really weird name and it looks weird. But you've also done it right. Is that right? It's fulgum. Speaking.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:22

Okay. You've said it multiple times, and my brain was like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:27

I know. Well, now I probably messed you up since I said all the wrong ways. Thanks, Daisy. You guys, I've really loved talking to you, and what a wonderful opportunity. Um, like just to spend this time with both of you. It's felt really great and really nourishing, and I'd be happy to talk with you too anytime.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:51

Well, I think we'd love to have you back on. We've had a couple guests this season. This is our second season that I'm like, we've got to get you back on. We need more.

unknown 1:09:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:58

You're number one on my list, Daisy. I mean, can I just say from the moment you started speaking, I've felt I've felt that I've been in this hug because of your voice, because of your demeanor, your spirit, your energy that I can feel through the cyberspaces. It just, I just, and I I really believe our listeners will also feel this like hug. And that's where you started, where it's like, can I get paid to hug people? Like, and that's what you do. It's yeah, it's powerful. She's a good hugger, too.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:31

So much that feels so good. And so I'm just receiving that. Like, that's hard to hear compliments sometimes, right? Or when someone's saying something nice to you, I'm just soaking it in.

unknown 1:10:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:44

So it's an honor. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:47

I just made my day.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:49

Oh my God. Well, I'm also coming to move in with you guys because I just I just think you're so fantastic. Yeah. Perfect. I clean, I clean, and I cook. So cooks and overall.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:00

Neither one of us do that here. So that's I would relate to you.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:04

I'm coming in. Overalls. Here I come.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:07

I was like, you just have to wear your cute overalls. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:13

Oh gosh. This has been wonderful. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:16

Daisy, thank you so much for coming on today and just sharing everything. And Courtney, thank you as always. Thank you, Emily. But yeah, Daisy, thank you so much. To our listeners out there, thank you. And if you have any questions for Daisy or want to reach out to her, you can always ask us. You can email us at that wasn't the planpod at gmail.com, find us on the social media or go to our website, that wasn't the plan.com. And we can always get in touch with her, share anything. And we will get that list of ethical porn. So we will have that. If anybody wants it, please just email us. We will send it out. No questions. Don't need to know who you are anonymously. I could even probably want this. Daisy, and if it would be okay with you, I could probably even share that on our social media. Um if that would be all right with you and the person that yeah, we can credit um the person if she's okay with that. Yeah. She is, yeah, yeah. Okay. Okay. So yeah, we can do that as well. Um yeah, everyone, thank you. It's always lovely to have these conversations. I appreciate it. And until next time. Thanks so much, you guys.

unknown 1:12:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:28

Big cat energy.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:29

Bye. Big cat energy. Thanks for listening to That Wasn't the Plan. If you found it helpful or at least mildly entertaining, a quick grading, review, and a click on the subscribe button would be lovely. And it genuinely helps us. And if a friend comes to mind, please share. Until next time. Bye.