SPEAKER_05 0:04

That wasn't the plan.

SPEAKER_03 0:12

Hello, Courtney. Emily White, good to see you. My God, you're gorgeous.

SPEAKER_05 0:17

Oh, good to see you, Courtney Holland. You as well, my dear. And welcome to everybody. Thank you for tuning in to That Wasn't the Plan. This is our second season. First episode of our second season.

SPEAKER_03 0:30

We left it on a cliffhanger last season. I don't know if you left it in, Emily, and I'm not pregnant.

SPEAKER_04 0:35

Oh yay!

SPEAKER_03 0:38

That would have been a nightmare.

unknown 0:43

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 0:43

I mean, it would whatever, it would have been great, but I think it's hilarious that at 46 I was like, it's gotta be pregnancy. It can't possibly be perimenopause. It's gotta be pregnancy. Here we go. I'm gonna be 50 when this kid turns four. Lord Jesus. I know. Gracious heavens.

SPEAKER_05 0:59

So and I've been um about traveling the world. I have a little bit of a cough thing because I've been in so many different seasons and time zones in the past three weeks. My word. I mean frickin' Australia, you hero. Uh, it was great. Oh, we had um yet another travel snafu, and our guest today, the wonderful Kinga Phillips, I'm sure can relate to this. Um, Kinga, before I properly introduce you, let me just quickly let you know that in the past year and a half, I've had three flights either completely cancel or divert over oceans, returning to some destination that we weren't originally leaving from, and me winding up in strange hotels, waiting for another flight to get me to where I was going. And this trip was no exception. This happened again, Courtney. I flew from Seattle to LAX when we landed at LAX, uh, got the text that our flight was about 45 minutes delayed, going into Melbourne, no problem. We were supposed to leave at like 11 p.m. that night because it's like the red eye over the Pacific there. And then get another text. It's now delayed till 1 a.m. So at this point, I arrived at CTAC at like 2:30 p.m. because we had a bunch of professional equipment, car, so we needed to get our carnage stamped so we can bring equipment across borders. So at this point, you know, been close to traveling already for 12 hours. We finally get on the plane around 1.30, get everybody snuggled in, and the pilots are like, the plane can't go. Get off the plane. We get off the plane, and they're like, Don't go anywhere. We're gonna reboard at like 5 45 in the morning. So sit tight. So LAX at this sit tight. LAX is like deserted at this point. I ever all the shops are now closed and everything. And this is a first for me, sleeping on the airplane or on the airport floor, which I had never done before. It's it's real fun. At least it was clean. And then around like four in the morning, I start getting all these phone calls, and it's somebody else, one of the crew members I'm traveling with, and he's like, Come to the gate right now. So go to the gate, and they're like, Your flight's now been canceled. Now you can go to a hotel, but don't go to a hotel of your choosing. You have to come wait in the gate line with 150 other people for an hour and a half while we give each individual person their own hotel room. So then we have to wait like another three hours standing in line. And at this point, you know, I've been traveling for since 2 p.m., 2 30 p.m. the the previous day, and it's now like 5 a.m. So finally get to the hotel around 7. I have all this work that I have to do. Now I have to contact Australia and say, hey, we're gonna be a day late. Uh they had rescheduled our flight like 24 hours later, so then it's a due to leave like 11 o'clock that night. So I finally go to bed around 9 a.m., sleep for a few hours, get up, go put my feet in the pool at the Weston at LAX, and then go back to the airport around 6 p.m. Um and our flight took off and it was great. Um, but it was just one of those where I was like, I knew it. The moment I set foot on that plane, I was like, the fact that we've been delayed two hours, they haven't really given us a reason as to why it was delayed. I was like, I just fucking knew it. This was gonna happen. This is the third time in a year and a half that this exact thing has happened to me. Um what do you get when you travel all the time? Well, yeah, so our amazing guest today has so many travel stories, but um we may touch on some of that, but before before we even get to talk to her, I really want to give her a proper introduction because she is. I seriously, I I swoon over her Instagram account because she's always somewhere in the world doing the most amazing adventures or ecological work, journalism, you name it. She's out there fighting the good fight and educating us along the way. So our guest today is Kinga Phillips. She she was born in Warsaw. She was born in Warsaw, Poland to a family of explorers. Her father is a geologist and her mother is a botanist. She immigrated to the United States at the age of five, settling in Oklahoma. She graduated college from Oklahoma State University in 2000. Um, in her early TV career, she was the original host of Google Current on Current TV. Her globetrotting adventure host era, where she co-hosted America's Lost Treasures for National Geographic, then Legend Quest for Sci-Fi, traveling to 13 countries in two months, investigating sunken churches in Ethiopia, trekking the Andes, spelunking in the Philippines, diving Mexican sonotes, and riding camels through Jordan. Her travel channel years, where she's hosted the wild side travel hacks and the award-winning The Real, repeatedly nominated and winning Tellys Webbies and the Synopsis Model D, she dove the transatlantic slave trade shipwrecks for the Emmy nominated enslaved executive produced by Samuel L. Jackson. Now, I watched this a couple years ago, and everyone go watch this. It's incredible. In 2020, she was the first woman in 33 years to solo host a Shark Week show called Tiger Queen on the Discovery Channel. She's still working with Shark Week, part of three Shark Week shows. She's to judge on Dancing with Sharks, host of host of Caught Shark Strike Back, and the host executive producer of Attack of the Devil Shark. She, and this is the most amazing thing to me because I grew up um idolizing National Geographic and the Explorers Club. She is a fellow at the Explorers Club, the actual organization behind humanity's biggest first. This is incredible. I know. The North Pole, the South Pole, Everest, the bottom of the ocean, and the surface of the moon. And the fellow is their highest honor reserved for people who've made a real documented contribution to science through fieldwork. It puts Kinga in the same room as James Cameron, Neil Armstrong, Sylvia Earle, and David Attenborough. Today she is hosting Finding Adventure on Very Local. She serves on the Board of Shark Allies, a nonprofit dedicated to shark conservation, while also acting as an ambassador for Waves for Water, which provides clean water solutions globally. So I'm, you know, there's much, much more, but I just wanted to say, welcome, Kinga. Thank you for coming on the podcast. Whoa. Thank you, ladies, so much. We're both so starstruck.

SPEAKER_03 7:34

I mean, my eyes, I'm like, I'm like, am I crying? Like, this is magic. Like, wow.

SPEAKER_05 7:40

I was just stumbling over my words there just because I'm like, oh my God, who is this person? I know.

SPEAKER_01 7:45

You make me sound way cooler than I actually am. And Courtney, I am so glad you're not pregnant. And Emily, I am so sorry about your crazy flight. Um, and thank you for that beautiful introduction. That definitely made me feel a lot cooler than I actually am. So happy to be here with you.

SPEAKER_03 8:03

Oh, what an honor. Holy moly.

SPEAKER_05 8:05

Kinga, I'm so yeah, you've been on my mind for months. And I finally was like, just ask her. Like, just ask her to come on the podcast. She's got so many cool stories. Um, but today I think maybe because Shark Week is coming up in a few weeks, we'll start with your shark adventures. Um You were more or less raised in like a landlocked state. Although I do know from your Instagram that you had said you spent many weeks andor summers in Florida. Yeah. Kind of at the beaches down there. So how how old were you, or when did you kind of realize that you thought sharks were just totally cool? Because the rest of us don't see them as these cute, snuggly little things as we might a whale or other ocean creatures.

SPEAKER_03 8:57

I think they're amazing for the record King Gun. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 9:00

I think they're incredible, but I think there's a lot of, you know, people are terrified of them.

SPEAKER_01 9:05

So what made you well, that's exactly how it started. I did not think that they were super crazy cool in the beginning. I thought they were super scary and terrifying. And you're right, not a lot of sharks in Oklahoma, definitely not. Although Florida, lots of sharks. In fact, shark by the capital of the world. And what happened to me is I basically had the shit scared out of me and then turned that into fascination. So, like probably every kid of this generation, I watched Jaws, and I wasn't allowed to watch Jaws. So I went to my friend's house and they had Jaws. And my friend and I were like, let's watch it on VHS. Yes. And yeah, on VHS, and we watched it, and I was like, I'm never going in the water again. I don't want to shower. I don't want to go in a forget that. And I went from this kid who was like adventurous and awesome. And every year we would go on spring break to Florida. We would road trip across the country and we would camp and there'd be like raccoons dripping down on our tents. And every year I was so excited to go into the ocean. And all of a sudden, I was like, oh hell no. I know what's in there now. And I'm not going. So I stopped going in swimming pools. I wouldn't, I remember one time we were canoeing across a lake. Or it wasn't a canoe, it was a boat. And I jumped in and I panicked so hard I almost flipped the boat and flipped everyone out because all that was in my head was dunno, dunno, the shark coming to get me. Yep. Yep. And so my parents were like, what happened? Suddenly you're you won't even like get your feet wet. And I couldn't tell them because I knew I'd get in trouble for having watched Jaws. So I don't even know when this happened, but that little, I guess, the little journalist in my brain that was developing was like, but why? Why, why are you so scared? And so I started thinking, okay, now I gotta figure this out. Like I have to, I have to dig into this. And I love research. Like I'm the person that goes to bed and like I'm like, how tall was Jesus? And before I fall asleep, I'm like, uh, what right? Why are swans white? Like I have, I have to know. So inquiring minds, right? And so I started researching. And then as I got older, I really started digging into it. And I remember the first time I went to Hawaii and I did a shark dive in a cage, and I was blown away because these sharks were not trying to pry me out of the cage and eat me on the spot like a bonbon. They were like, oh, I don't care. And I was like, whoa, whoa, this is not what I was told. This is not what the media, this is not what the movie said. The movie said these sharks would be like, I'm gonna get you out of this cage, I'm gonna pull you out, I'm gonna eat you. And I was blown away by that. And I thought, okay, so there's a story here, and it's something I want to investigate. Like these sharks are total underdogs, and they're also really badass, really cool. At that point, I had researched enough, you know, at 10 p.m. to know that sharks were a vital part of our ecosystem and our oceans. And I was like, wait a minute, everyone loves whales and everyone loves orcas, and you know, people love bears and they love lions, and yet sharks people don't like, like actively dislike. And I I understand the fear, but that's kind of where it all started.

unknown 12:16

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 12:17

How many years ago was that? Oh my goodness. Um, I was I was an adult when I finally went to Hawaii. I mean, I was probably in late 20s, maybe. Okay. So not not that long ago. But yeah, not long ago.

SPEAKER_00 12:34

Like five years ago. Yeah, like last year.

SPEAKER_03 12:38

Two months ago. No, I got it. Me too.

SPEAKER_00 12:41

So a long ass time ago, I went to Hawaii and got in the water with some sharks. Yeah. Yeah. People were still in the Stone Age, and I was in Hawaii. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:50

Can I ask what kind of sharks were there?

SPEAKER_01 12:53

So one of the first times I went, yes, there are a lot of Galapagos sharks. Uh, there was a big sandbar shark, and they have this gorgeous dorsal fin. And then I I actually cannot remember if this was the first time I went or what the second or the third. I went with my friend Jesse and a tiger shark showed up. And I was like, this is the coolest thing I've ever seen. We're in the cage. We were in the cage. They would not let us out of the cage at that time. And I remember thinking it was so cool because there were all these sharks around. So sharks have a hierarchy by size. And the bigger sharks are the dominant ones. And I remember we had all these Galapagos and sandbar sharks around, and all of a sudden they vanished. And I like instinctively knew because I backpack and I hike, and you just know, like, you know, when something changes in nature. It's like when you're hiking and all of a sudden all the birds stop and you're like, where is it? There's a predator, there's something. And when all these sharks disappeared, it is scary. I mean, that's that's the movie stuff, right? That's the dunna, dunno. And they vanished. And all of a sudden, out of the blue just comes this giant shape with those characteristic stripes. And I was like, oh my God, it's so amazing. And I remember being to the boat, people like, can I just go in the water? Can I just go in the water? Can I? And they were like, um, no, you you cannot. And I thought it was it was the coolest thing ever. So I got to see her from the cage for the first time.

unknown 14:15

Oh.

SPEAKER_05 14:15

Oh my god. Wow. Oh, that's incredible. I um I swam with some, I would say they're Galapagos sharks. You probably know better than I do. Down in the Galapagos. I but I thought they were either white or black-tipped reef sharks down there. Um, and one of them was trailing me while I was swimming in the water. And I heard some people, and we were in this really remote location, but there was another boat of snorkelers around, and I they were, I don't know, maybe about like 20 meters from me, and they were screaming, and like, and I was like, Oh, they're just saying hello to me. And then I was like, no, like you can feel that. So it's like goes back to that predator energy that you were talking about, and I was like, There's something there. So I turned around immediately, and there was, you know, one of probably like a six-foot shark, I don't know, two feet behind me. Just curious, curious little thing. And I splashed my feet and it went away. And I was like, Sharks are nothing to be feared right now. They're they're as curious as my cat.

SPEAKER_01 15:12

They they are, they're also sneaky. I mean, they are they are apex predators and they are ambush and stalking predators. So this guy was following you and kind of wanted to see what you are. And the the thing when you're in the water with sharks, it's really interesting because uh uh, first of all, the Galapagos are amazing. I've been there too, and holy moly, what a cool place, right? Like awesome. And when you're around sharks, one of the things we always tell people is like maintain eye contact because they want to sneak up on you. They're like, oh, what's that? It's not looking at me. I'm gonna get closer. And then the moment you turn, they're like, oh nothing. I wasn't doing anything. I wasn't looking directly at you. I'm just gonna swim over here. Matter of shark. They're nonchalant and funny. So you do want to maintain eye contact with them. That's that's a good thing to do.

SPEAKER_03 16:00

I'm getting goosebumps. Like, oh, I love it. I love, I love how yeah. The apex predator, and that you need to make and keep eye contact with your shark. I would give what I would give to make eye contact with a shark, guys. I'd give some. You can do that, or if Nova happens, you can. Yeah. Yeah. We can arrange that. I know. Oh my God. Well, that's what I'm saying. Yeah. Well, and it's funny because I lived, I lived in Hawaii on Pearl Harbor in the middle of um Pearl Harbor on Fort Island. And we had this, there was this, we called it Turtle Island, but it was this tiny little pile of rocks. And, you know, because there's not a lot of trouble to get into, we'd walk out to the rocks because it was shallow enough, and we'd take our, we'd have our suits on, we'd have our clothes over our head, and as we were started getting in the water, the oldest guy, I was like 10 at the time, he turned around and he's like, Now, when a shark comes up to you, just kick it in the nose. And I was like, Nope. I was like, later, later, skaters, nope, nope, nope. Because I guess what I understood it was hammerhead mating ground. I don't know if that's true or if my brain just made that up. But um, so yeah, but um that's cool. Yeah, and I totally forgot about that instant until you started talking. I started getting goosebumps and thinking about I just I love I would just love to know what that feels like to be in a cage, to cease, not even be in a cage. I'd be willing to be out of a cage if other professionals were nearby and just be in the in the witness of something that big, and then I have to make eye contact with it. So doesn't even be extraordinary.

SPEAKER_05 17:34

I can't imagine, Kinga. Wow. So Kinga, let me ask you um, have you had a lot of time in the water with white sharks, as we know, great white sharks?

SPEAKER_01 17:45

Yes. So we used to go out to Guadalupe Island. You can only be in a cage with them at Guadalupe Island unless you have scientific permits because it's a biosphere, so they don't let you out of the cage, which is actually a good thing because they're real big. Um very large sharks, very large. Larger than some of the tigers that you're the largest. They are. They are well, I mean, you know, whale sharks are the biggest, but then you have great whites in there, yes. So they're bigger than the than the tigers and they're girthier and beefier, like they're just big sharks.

SPEAKER_03 18:15

Can you give us an idea of I'm so sorry to interrupt, but like size-wise, like the size of a like a Camry or Oh, a cam.

SPEAKER_01 18:22

That was a great you know how they always say Americans like are like it's three giraffes long. Yeah, we just did that. It's the size of a camry. I've a Camry. I used to drive a Camry. Let me I've never compared a white shark to a Camry. Yeah, yeah. They're like a Camry. It's that's good. That's like a Camry with a little bit of a little maybe a little bit of extra corolla on the back end. I've never measured a Camry. So you know, the shark, you know, white sharks can be, I mean, they they can be up to 20 feet long. So they can be big fish. Big fish. So I don't, I don't know how long a Camry is, but I think visually there's I'm just picturing someone in a cage in a Camry swimming by now. I I can't, I will never unsee that now. The Camry. Camry making eye contact with you. Yeah. She was an incident of five o'clock news man attacked by a Camry. Uh so yes, Guadalupe is an awesome place for Camry-sized great white sharks. And they uh show up there every season. And the season is usually it was now they've shut it down, so you can't go out there anymore. But it's it was like July to November. And first it would be like the young males that would come earlier in the season, and they were always really fun because they're like teenage boys, they're like really putchy, they'll swim by the cage, they'll like look at you, they'll go for the bait. And then, yes, that's 100% them. Full on teenagers. Like, and then the end of the season, they would call it the time of the Titans, and that's when the big females would show up. And there was a really famous shark out there called Deep Blue, and she was like apparently the largest white shark ever seen, and she was probably 20 plus feet. I never got to see her, but there were some big ass sharks out there, and so you would go down in the cage, and it was it was a multi-day excursion. It was so cool, and we would lead trips with shark allies, and I think I went out there five times altogether, and then you would just rotate in the cages and they would come by and they would look at you like talk about making eye contact. And they have these amazing, like black pupils, and then there's blue around them, and they're beautiful, and they would look at each individual diver in the cage and say so. I have never been out of a cage with a white shark, even though I'm sure they've been close, because we would free dive and spearfish all over out in Catalina Islands, San Clemente, the Channel Islands off of Los Angeles. We would do that quite often, and you know they're there, but I I would not I would not want one sneaking up on me. That's now hard pass.

SPEAKER_05 20:45

Yeah. Can you sense it in the water when you're out and you're like, uh, there might be a shark nearby?

SPEAKER_01 20:52

You know, yes. And it kind of goes back to what I was saying before about that feeling. I think when you're really tapped into nature, you do tend to have that instinct. And I've had that a couple of times in my life. And once uh my ex and I were diving in Mexico and we got in the water and I it I didn't see a thing, nothing, but I felt it. And I popped my head out of the water and I said, There's something big around here. And they were like, Yeah, yeah, whatever. Keep diving. And I was like, No, I I know there's something big. I felt it. And I dropped a little bit. We were we were spear fishing and free diving, and all of a sudden I see this huge tail moving away. And I popped back up and I was like, hey guys, there's there's a big shark around here. And I remember our guide was like, Oh, I don't know. It's I don't know, I don't know if it's a shark. And I'm like, no, I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure it's a shark. And he dropped to there's a pinnacle there, and he dropped to the pinnacle and he came back up and he was like, Oh my god, you're right. There's like a really large bronze whaler down there. And I was like, Yeah, I knew it. I felt it, and then I saw it. But before I even saw it, I felt that it was there. I knew it was there. So yeah. That that sense is there. It's true.

SPEAKER_05 22:02

Yep. I was out hiking here on the Olympic Peninsula a couple years ago and I was by myself and got to the trail and it just went quiet. And I was maybe a mile in and I was like, now's the time to turn around. And sure enough, like in a couple days, there was like multiple cougar sightings and all of that. And I was like, I just, you know, don't want to be out by myself with cougars around. So yeah, it was like do you carry bear spray? Um, I didn't at the time, but I have it now. Yeah. Good. So wow. But you know, I was I was even like singing and clapping my hiking sticks together because I know they're out there and you know, anything to deter them, but sometimes they don't care. Like they're they're sneaky.

SPEAKER_01 22:43

They're like sneak. Yeah. I've I've had that happen to me backpacking twice, hiking, and I I hike alone a lot.

unknown 22:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:50

And there was one in Alaska where I also turned around on a trail, and it was the same. I knew, I knew that there was something. And I didn't have bear spray and it's grizzly country. And I'm like, I don't mess around with grizzlies. They scare me more than bears. They scare more than sharks. So I was like, no, no. And I turned around. And then there was another hike I did here in California, and I was by myself, and it was really foggy, and I was way back in the Santa Monica Mountains. And all of a sudden, I just I knew something was watching me. And I was like, oh yeah, as there's there's something watching. And I carry, I carry bear spray, I carry pepper spray. That's mostly for the people. And I carry a knife. I have a stun gun. I've got everything minus a gun. I mean, I've like I'm so hard.

SPEAKER_00 23:30

You're so big ass.

SPEAKER_01 23:31

But I mean you I kind of I mean it's really when people ask about that, I'm like, it's mostly for humans. It's true. I pulled out my spray and I actually armed it as I was walking back down because I even now telling the story, I've got I've got chills. And I knew there was something watching me. And I was like, okay, you know, I'm in your territory. I got it. Just don't speak up on me because it'll be a fight.

unknown 23:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:54

So I didn't. Yeah. I will fight you.

unknown 23:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:59

Oh my God. Oh my God. I'm tearing up. This is so exciting to me. Like, I love listening to you guys talk. Oh my God.

unknown 24:07

I do.

SPEAKER_01 24:08

Do you think I was because I have really bad allergies right now? I'm like, she's crying. She's crying about her own story. So she's so moved actually.

SPEAKER_03 24:18

You should be, Kinga. You shouldn't be so moved. My heavens. Sorry.

SPEAKER_05 24:25

My eyes are from allergies. So Kinga, when you're diving with um tiger sharks, because I know tiger sharks is, are they maybe your favorite shark? They are. They are my favorite side. There's so many cool sharks, but I do like them a lot. You don't ever use cages with those guys, do you? No. Or do you? No. No. So what what's their demeanor like compared to like a white shark? You know or any other shark. What makes you feel comfortable?

SPEAKER_01 24:54

Tiger sharks are very inquisitive. They're punchy. Uh they are the ones that are really going to show up and investigate. So, you know, w when you say I what makes me feel comfortable with them, feeling comfortable with them is never forgetting that you should never get too comfortable with them. Because it and and I it the shark world is so interesting because you have like influencers and and people on one side that are like, sharks are your friends. Oh my God, I love sharks. And then you have scientists on on the other side that are like, oh, well, you know, they are they are apex predators. And the reality is, I lean more towards a scientist. Like, sharks are not your friends. They will kill you if given the chance. And people should not forget that. And I think that's an important thing. Are they mindless killers? No. Do they want to like go out and kill you and eat you? No. Otherwise, we'd all be dead because they're everywhere. So they don't. But just like on a safari, you're not going to get out of the safari jeep and be like, I'm going to walk amongst these lions. Like they will kill you. A bear will kill you. Most of the time, is it going to go in the other direction? Yes. But it is there, is there a chance? Absolutely. So when you're in the water with tiger sharks, it's very important to understand their behavior, their body language, and also be in control of your behavior and your body language because you're constantly, it's like a dance, right? You're like, yeah, yeah, dance and it's the sharks. You're constantly sending signals to each other. So when we go in the water with with tiger sharks, and it's also one thing, one thing I love. There's a people talk about mistaken identity. And there's another theory called the asshole shark theory, which I love. And there the truth of it is every animal, whether it's a human, a dog, a shark, a squirrel, has its own unique personality. And so there's a scientist out of Tahiti named Dr. Eric Kalua. And he, I think he's out of Tahiti. I know he's worked there a lot. And he kind of pioneered this asshole shark theory. And it basically says there are just certain sharks that are going to be grumpier or more investigative or more bold or, you know, more aggressive, if you will, whatever the term is. And I've experienced that. I've been in the water with with three tiger sharks, and it was just me. And two of them, one was smaller and it would stay on the periphery. One was kind of like, well, maybe I'll come in and just check you out. And then this huge 13-footer comes in, and her name's Chupa. And she comes right into me and I have to grab her head and push her away. And because she was that shark, like that she was big, she was dominant, and she was like, I want to see what you are. And they investigate with their head and their teeth. So that's where you where that's where you have to stop. You have to have really good boundaries and you have to stop them because if they are coming in to investigate you, they're not going to like pat you with their fins. Like they are going to mouth it. And that it being you. So, you know, there are a lot of nuances to being in the water with sharks. Like, especially if you have a big tiger coming towards you, you want to intercept it, you want to swim towards it. You never want to like get out of the way. Because then their instinct kicks in. Like I used to have a Rottweiler, and if you would run, she would chase you and she would jump on you. And she was the sweetest, kindest dog, but that's just an instinct. So, you know, anything they tell you if you're a mountain lion, a bear, and anything, don't run. Because if you run, you're gonna kick in that cat and mouse. And it's the same thing with sharks. So you want to face them, you want to stand your ground. You a lot of times when you when you're swimming and you're you're flat in the water, all they can see is your head. And because hierarchy is by size, you want to show them that you're something larger and that you're also not really something that you're not a sea turtle, you're not something on the menu. And so we'll go vertical in the water so that they can see your whole shape. And they'll still sometimes come in and like dart off in the last second, or you know, sometimes you do have to move them, but they they're curious and they investigate, but are they out there to be like, I'm gonna kill you? No. Right.

SPEAKER_03 28:47

Right. No. It's just like spiders. Spiders don't know they're spiders. They're not trying to be scary and creep you out. They're just living.

SPEAKER_01 28:54

Spiders are my worst fear. I mean, I will take sharks. I can, I can someone's like, Oh, I got a rattlesnake in the yard. I'm like, I'll come move it, no problem. I cannot do spiders. Like a huntsman spider, like those large palm-sized spiders, which are by the way, very docile and they have bad vision, but they'll often run at you. No, I'm good. I'm good. Hard pass. No.

unknown 29:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:19

Nope. Don't disagree with it. Well, I'm just trying to explain because I don't, I don't want them on me or near me, but I will save it and take it outside. So I'm just like, you know, they don't know they're spiders. Like ticks. They don't know they're ticks.

SPEAKER_02 29:33

They're not, they're not like, hey, I'm gonna fuck your life up, you know. Like, I kind of think they are. I see where you come, but I'm gonna disagree with you.

SPEAKER_01 29:39

I kind of feel like ticks are like, are that I kind of feel like ticks are like, I am the devil. I will bring you Lyme disease and you will never eat meat again. Yeah. They they have a singular goal in life to like. That's a tick. I swear.

SPEAKER_03 29:56

Like there's ticks were a bad example because they are pretty, there's some sons of good examples. They're total assholes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:02

In fact, you know what? We were doing that show uh finding adventure in on the goal. Like, I just want to fuck everybody up. And we were we were like um looking for moose for the show. And the scientist that was with us told us, she was like, you know what moose mostly die of? Like ticks sucking all their blood. And they're like, We found moose who have uh they gave some outrageous number. It was like 300,000 ticks on them, and they basically made this poor moose anemic, and then the moose dies. And I'm like, oh god. So how you describe ticks is exactly how they are. Okay. Yeah. That's what we should be afraid of. Not fuck those ticks.

SPEAKER_03 30:44

Okay, I'm I'm but I'm with you on the fuck those ticks, yeah. Not sharks. Fuck the ticks.

SPEAKER_05 30:49

The small things in life that will kill you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:51

Mosquitoes are number one. Yeah, the ticks are mother.

unknown 30:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:55

Yeah, we can stay here for a long time and list all the things that will kill you before sharks. Spiders. I know. Germs. Yeah. Well, and spiders do have a good purpose. They they help keep down the bugs and all of that. So that but yeah, fuck ticks, fuck mosquitoes, and fuck flies. Fuck them. Ugh, the worst.

SPEAKER_05 31:14

I I can't do spiders either, Kinga. And actually, when I was just in Australia, I was like, they're known for their spiders down there. So I went with um some like gaff tape. And I think I saw this from one of your Instagram posts. Maybe you were in South America and Suradom. You were like, thank God to the camera department, they gave me some black tape to like tape up the windows and doors and like little things. So I was thinking, I was like, how can I prevent spiders from getting into my hotel room? Because we were we were four hours into rural Australia. Like we were not in any major cities, like we were in backcountry, tiny little towns, um, staying in like these little roadside motel. Um, but anyway, so I brought some tape with me. Um, luckily, it was winter down there, so I didn't really have any spider problems. But I was thinking, I thought, I was like, Kinga, you're my go-to travel hack person, by the way. So I always like I love watching your Instagram reels and everything else because I'm taking notes and I'm like, do this, do this, do this. Uh, lavender oil. Spiders hate lavender oil. Uh, that's another good one.

SPEAKER_01 32:20

Yeah. And that's the gaff tape. That was a Suriname. And that was large, very large spiders in the jungle in Suriname. And I one ended up on my shoulder, fell out of my towel. I know. I lost my mind. And everyone came running, and I asked our camera department for gaff tape because they had screens in the windows, but there were giant holes and gaps. And I was like, yeah, this isn't working. And so I gaffed it all up, and then I poured so much lavender oil that I remember that the person in the hut next to me was like, I can smell the lavender oil. And I was like, You're welcome. So everyone was real relaxed on that. All the monkeys were like, I'm so sleepy. That's right.

SPEAKER_03 33:00

They're like, This is great. It's like a day spawn here. Yeah. It's like a total day spawn. Wow. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_05 33:10

But uh lavender oil does not deter sharks. So that's now um although I don't think it's been tested.

SPEAKER_01 33:20

As scent. I mean, they do say that the they there have been the smell of dead shark. Like there were theories that when a shark is killed, that scent that it releases a dead shark that'll actually scare all the other sharks away. I don't know if that's been scientifically proven or not. Um, I don't know that tests on lavender have been done. We don't know. We don't know. Yeah. It's a good we could make a hypothesis about that now, and I could pitch that for the next shark week.

SPEAKER_05 33:45

I don't know if there's enough lavender oil to do that with. I'm sure, you know, you'd need however many thousands, millions of gallons to put in the ocean to to test that theory.

SPEAKER_03 33:56

To test that theory, yeah. Um or they just get sleepy. Kinga, I I wanna I wanna ask you. Um I want, I mean, there's a quadrillion questions I want to ask you, but I'm not going to. I'm gonna be cool, all right? Um what was the scariest moment you've had with a shark? There have been a couple.

SPEAKER_01 34:20

And have there been any? Yeah. There have been. Um probably the the most. Or just adrenaline inducing, like um there have been, I mean, you do, you get you get yourself into situations where, and we're actively putting ourselves into these situations, which is to be noted. Right. And there are times where I'm like, we probably shouldn't be doing this. Like, we're lucky to have gotten out of this. Uh there have been a couple. So probably the most documented one was on last year's Shark Week, um, where we were in Saba in the Caribbean, and we were we always chum because here's the other thing people don't realize. People think that because of all the news reports and the unfortunate incidents that do happen with sharks, that people drop into the water and there's like sharks immediately circling. That's not the case. Uh, we have to bait for them heavily, and we always have permits to do so. We always have scientists with us. But we literally, when we were in Turks and Caicos, we spent $13,000 in chum, in dead barracuda to bring in sharks. And we would send out boats ahead. You create a slick so that they come in. Sometimes they'll take two days. Uh, it's a lot, you know. So you don't just drop into the water and you're like, oh my God, there's sharks here. We're gonna film them now. No, it's a lot of work. Right. Yeah. Our camera guys are sitting there with like knives, like baiting, you know, scraping fish. You're scraping, you're doing all this stuff. Where call I usually throw away my gloves at the end of a shoot because you've got the smell of chum is on everything. And that oily, greasy, especially barracuda, it doesn't wash out.

SPEAKER_03 35:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:52

Um, I've had to soak my wetsuits because my wetsuits are expensive. I'm like, no, I'm not throwing these away. Uh, your hair at the end of the day, I've got like fish scales in my hair. So you're chumming the whole time. And we were chumming in Sabah, and we had been chumming for a while. And this is a wild area. It's also, I think, important to realize that there are certain areas. Like there's Tiger Beach in the Bahamas or certain areas where sharks are habituated to humans. And they, they, you know, we'll drop down barrels, they'll feed the sharks. I I have my concerns about hand feeding sharks. I think sharks are very smart. I think they recognize humans as being a source of food. I don't love that. But chumming, some people have a problem with chumming. I'm like, that ship sailed literally 2,000 years ago. We've been throwing stuff off of boats. Sharks have associated boats with food for a long time. Uh, but when you do chum and they come in, you know, you you don't want to be in the slick because they're coming in and they're kind of looking for the source, right? So we had this big bait ball hanging down and it was very murky water. The conditions were garbage. It was not a day you wanted to be in the water. It was murky and it was very choppy. So you're getting thrown around. We're chumming for sharks, and we're also in an area where these sharks are not habituated to humans. They are not familiar with us. They do not a lot of sharks in those areas where like Fiji, Bangal Lagoon, Tiger Beach, areas where sharks are regularly fed. It's a double-edged sword because they'll come closer because they they know that you're you're feeding, but they also are kind of familiar with with the routine of it. So they're easily, much more easily controlled. So here we are in the wild sharks that are not familiar, and all of a sudden we get two young um tiger sharks, uh, these two young males. And I had a biopsy stick because I wanted to get a biopsy of them. And we got into the water, and one of the little young males goes and he goes for the bait, and all of a sudden he turns and he locks in on me. And I was like, uh-oh. And I'm holding the spear in my right hand, which is my dominant hand, and the shark charges at me. And I was like, well, fuck. And you what's interesting is you you don't really have a lot of time to react because you got to come up with a plan and you've got about a split second. And normally what you would want to do is you would want to swim at the shark, intercept it before it starts to open its mouth because you want to prevent that and just push it down, push it away. But I was like, shit, the problem is that there's a lot of surge in the water. So if I start to move towards the shark, the chances are that the surge is gonna push me into it and I'm gonna lose control of where I am. And there's a sharp end on a shark. So you don't want to lose control of that. So I was like, well, I'm gonna have to let him come to me so that I have a little bit more control. But at that point, his mouth is gonna be open. And there's there's footage of all this because there was a drone up in the air. There were cameras on the boats, and we had our camera guy underwater with us too. And the shark comes into me, opens his mouth, and I grab him with my left hand and I got him so they have their mouth, and then above that is kind of the angle of their nose. And I dug my fingers into his the top of his snout, essentially, and he threw me out of the water. And the two of us come out of the water, and everyone on the boat had been cheering because they saw the sharks coming in, and you're always really excited when sharks come in because you're you get something to film. And all of a sudden the whole boat goes silent. And our, we always have trauma medics for obvious reasons, never needed one, knock on one, um, on the boat. And she said she was like, I went to get my bag because I didn't know what was happening because it was murky. They and all they saw was me come out of the water holding on to this shark. And our safety diver comes in from the side and he pushes from the side, and I'm holding on, and I couldn't, I couldn't see anymore. And so uh I all I'm thinking is like I need to hold on because the the surface is aerated. Because if I let go of the shark, I don't know if he's gonna come back into me. I don't know. I have to know where he is. And so I'm holding on. The safety diver comes in from the side, he pushes from the side, and I push. And by the way, this whole thing was seconds, and the shark moves off, and we actually got the the hit for the biopsy. So that and and in the moment, I thought nothing of it because you're just you're in it. And we kept going, and you know, I was like, Oh, I got the biopsy, and then it came back around, and we're like, okay, maybe we can get another one. And I remember we have this one cameraman named Mark Rackley. He is fame, if famous in the shark world. This man, I mean, he's got like chunks out of his shoulder from a blue shark. Like he is the shark whisper. He is the most badass human. I have seen this man filming with one camera, chumming while holding off a tiger shark in Turks and Caicos. He is I just I have no words. He's got an incredible story about his friend who was attacked by a Nile crocodile, and he had to dive down and stab the crocodile. He is, he is, I mean, I I I don't, he's like the wow uh Chuck Norris of the shark world. Steve Irwin meets Chuck Norris, meets every like Jackie Chan, like badass human on the planet. Wow. And I remember Rackley and Rackley and I have a great relationship and we're great in the water together. And he swims up to me and he goes, I'm calling it, we're getting out. And I was like, Oh shit, if Rackley's calling it, this isn't good. And we got out of the water. Wow. And he was just like, Yeah, that I didn't like the conditions. Like it was rough. And I was like, Yeah, they were, they were kind of shitty. They were real, real bad. And then later that night, I was laying in bed and I was like, God, that really could have gone south. Like that could have gotten bad fast. Holy shit. So there's, yeah. And then I mean, there's there's been another story like that with a silky shark, which I call them the no personal space sharks, where in um Socorro off of Mexico, I had one come at me and I didn't have any gear on. And that was that was uncomfortable. So I had to start throwing punches at it. Yeah. Oh wow. So there's stories, but but it's always because I got myself into that situation. Of course. It's I've never had a story of I was swimming around all of a sudden a shark just came out of nowhere at me.

SPEAKER_05 41:45

Yeah, right. Of course. But wow. What would you say to somebody if they're out there swimming or just, you know, hanging tight in the surf and a shark does come up to them? Because it does happen. And like you said, probably more in Florida or on the East Coast. I don't know that, you know, we have too many here on the West Coast. I mean, there are, but not as many. What would you say to somebody?

SPEAKER_01 42:06

Like what would be The unfortunate thing when someone is in that situation is usually they don't see it coming. You know, all the situations, and I've I've investigated a lot of shark attacks. I've seen images, unfortunately, of the aftermath. And very rarely I've seen videos. I mean, the show that I have on Shark Week this year is called What Shark Attacked. And it's us investigating shark incidents and trying to determine what species of shark it was. And a lot of times there's some video. And in every single one of the cases that that we investigated, that person was just swimming around and all of a sudden they're hit by a shark and they did not see it coming. So I would love to say to people, if you do see a shark, and it there are cases where you know people are in the water and they do see a shark, don't panic, don't splash around, don't swim away because you'll kick in that instinct. Be very calm, be very normal, get out of the water. You know, be just if you're you're not, you're not a shark diver, you're not a shark expert, just exit the situation if you're not comfortable. Um yeah, I'd love to tell people, you know, you see it also on Instagram where people are like, yeah, if if the shark comes into you, if the giant tiger shark comes into you, just push down on its head, you push it down and away. And I'm like, good luck with that. Good luck with that. You know, average person who isn't swimming with sharks, and it's like, I can totally handle this 13-foot tiger shark that's coming at me right now who's gonna push it down and away, like an influencer told me to. The reality is it if someone sees a tiger shark coming at them, they're probably going to panic, and that's not what you want to do. But the unfortunate situation is in most cases, yeah, they don't see it until it's it it's too late and the incident is active. And especially surfers, like the shark will come from underneath, even snorkelers. Like in there was a horrible incident in St. Croix this year, and there was a woman snorkeling, and she unfortunately lost her life. And we we're nearly positive that was a tiger shark. And Yeah, just it was a horrible freak accident. One in a million, more people die by coconuts. But I also understand why people are scared of sharks. They are large, they have sharp teeth, they live in an environment that we're not comfortable in that we can't survive in. I I get it. Yeah. And they're sneaky.

SPEAKER_03 44:17

And they're sneaky. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:18

They're silent.

SPEAKER_03 44:19

Detail about them. There's silent.

SPEAKER_04 44:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:26

So good. I'm gonna have to shave my legs again because I've gotten so much peaceful. You can cut that out. That's really no, please leave that in. Please leave that in. I'm super hairy too, so it's like I shave and then it's like blink. Um but um so I have a question, and this is uncouth and crass a little bit, but I'm curious about it. Um yeah. Um so when I was in Florida, I um being in perimenopause, I um had a sudden um my period started. And it was in a way that was incredibly um violent. And so in order to get to the bathroom, Emily knows the story, I had to walk in the water because it was, I mean, it was coming down my leg. I mean, it was awful. And I've never had that happen to me where I was like bleeding out in public um as a 46-year-old woman with a bunch of teenage stepkids. Like it was awesome. Um, so I'm in the water, and I remember Jonathan was walking on the beach, my husband, and um we he kind of laughed. He was like, Should we be looking out for sharks? Is that ridiculous? Or should I have been looking out for sharks? I wasn't like that whole story.

SPEAKER_01 45:35

I I think every woman could relate. Um that's happened to the best of us. Yeah, yeah, I got stuck in a bathroom in in Curaçao once or no with some bon air, it couldn't come out because I had to wash, I had literally wash my shorts in the toilet. Yeah. Uh to be able to come out. Yeah. It was disgusting all around. Yeah. Uh but as far as sharks, no, I mean, realistically, no. Like that that blood dilutes so quickly that unless literally there's a shark right there, who's like, what's that? Um, also, they've done studies. Okay. And mammal blood isn't really what they're after. I mean, what could they get curious if it was literally right there? If you were in a bathtub with a shark and and that happened, I mean, I guess, but if I had a nickel. If I had a nickel, but every step was a bathtub of a shark.

SPEAKER_00 46:22

I'd have a nickel.

SPEAKER_01 46:23

Um but actually, even if you had one nickel, that'd be very impressive. But uh no, I I really feel like that dilutes so quickly. I mean, there people have been like, I've peed in the water. Is the shark gonna know? I mean, if it does, it's probably not like, oh, urine. I'm so excited. Human urine.

SPEAKER_05 46:41

You've heard is they are attracted to urine. So I had to go down a rabbit hole on that one time, and it was like inconclusive, and it was basically like, where did you hear this? Um that's the thing. It's inconclusive.

SPEAKER_01 46:52

Could they could they get curious about something? Here's the thing: sharks are very curious, and especially pelagic sharks that are out there. Pelagic is like open ocean, so it's essentially a desert. So you have sharks out there that are curious about everything. They're like, oh, what's that? Could this be something? Could this be something? Yeah, they're curious. Does it mean that they want to investigate every time someone pees in the ocean or there has their period in the ocean? Like, no, they're they they I don't think they care enough. I think it also dilutes so quickly. So that's the the chance of you peeing yourself and getting attacked by a shark because of that would be real low. And also, like, that's embarrassing. How'd she die by shark attack? Well, she was peeing on herself.

SPEAKER_05 47:34

She peeing on the shark was like delicious. I pee in the water basically every time I swim here year-round. And um, you know, it's Puget Sound. We do, I believe we have six types of sharks here. I've never seen any. Um, they're all kind of, I want to say, more they're attracted to the bottom of the ocean. We don't have any of the tigers or the white sharks that you know you'd see elsewhere. You have the cold water deep sharks. Well, yeah, that's exactly what we have. And I pee out there year-round, and you know, the only things that's ever gotten to me is a jellyfish. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:09

See, so you've performed your own experiment. I have. I mean, I pee every time I'm in the water. In fact, sometimes I'll pee in my wetsuit so it's warmer. It's the best.

SPEAKER_03 48:21

So it's warmer, duh. Like hello.

SPEAKER_05 48:23

It is my favorite delights to go to the bathroom.

SPEAKER_03 48:26

Yeah. The ocean loves that for you.

SPEAKER_05 48:32

Well, I hate public restrooms. Amen. I would much rather go in a bush or in the ocean or someplace else. I hate public restrooms.

SPEAKER_01 48:40

1,000%. And I don't think we talk enough about this as humans. Public, we're disgusting. And public restrooms are disgusting. I was telling my mom the other day that I took my friend to a colonoscopy because that's a friend's do. That's what friends of the 40s do.

SPEAKER_00 48:54

Oh, yeah. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 48:57

As I was waiting for her, I went into this Albertsons and I was like, oh, I gotta pee. And I just I feel like I'm bad. I just called out Albertsons. But I went to the bathroom. It was, you guys, oh, what is wrong with people? It was disgusting. It smelled honestly like a freaking sewer. And then I went in the bathroom and I was like, what's wrong with us as a species? Like, do you not know how to flush? Why is there poopy toilet paper in the trash can? Like, what is wrong with everyone? It was so disgusting. And all I thought in my head was I would be so much happier in nature. Like, I love backpacking. I love with my little shovel. I will dig a hole. I will go poo in nature. We call them like nature poos. Like, yes, that is preferable to a public restaurant, to a porta potty. Oh, and peeing in nature, the best. Yeah. Not not enough people discuss this.

SPEAKER_05 49:46

No, I think it's a great topic.

SPEAKER_03 49:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 49:48

It is. We'll have to have you on for another um episode because we seriously will. Oh my God. I think you should just come on every week and talk about it.

SPEAKER_03 49:56

Could you, Kinga? I know you probably don't have a lot going on, so you got a lot of time. And just talk about peeing and pooping in nature. And then and the and the public bathrooms. But I do want to say that just to round out my period bleeding all over myself, it was major. I so to get to the bathroom, it was I had to walk down the beach and then walk up the beach. It was one of those big, stupid ass beaches. So I'm walking and I'm holding my dress and it's coming down my legs and there's nothing I can do. And I asked Jonathan to just leave me because then I can just not look at anybody and just beeline for the bathroom. Ladies, I got to the bathroom. There was, of course, a line out the door, and these women shuffled me in right away. They tampons, we need tampons. Like, and then they put I've got goosebumps just talking about it. I get into the bathroom, they're like, hand us your dress. We are gonna rinse it in the sink. Like these women, and no one was related. Everybody was just, you know, moms and kids, and but it was. I mean, I get goosebumps every time because that is like we're all in this disgusting bathroom, and they all and I had like 90 tampons in my little pouch, and I told them it's not the problem. Like, I just can't take it out and put it in in the ocean. But it was pretty special and wonderful, and it made me grateful to be a woman because we look out for each other when it comes to that shit. So but yeah, fuck the public bathroom. Love that. Let's all do it in the woods.

SPEAKER_01 51:18

Disgusting women awesome.

unknown 51:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:20

Oh, I love that story. That's a great story.

SPEAKER_03 51:23

And I didn't get attacked by the shark, and we joked about it, and then I was like, I should look it up and see if that's even a real thing. So instead, I talked to the expert King got and she gave me the answer. So now I can share it wide and far. Wide and far. You're safe in the water, ladies. You're safe in the water.

SPEAKER_05 51:40

So Kinga, you do have Shark Week coming up. What's your show again this year?

SPEAKER_01 51:44

So I have a Shark Week show this year called What Shark Attacked. And it's actually really interesting because there's quite a bit of science to it. So we look at shark incidents, and now because everyone has a camera, everyone's diving with a GoPro, you know, all the time, there's cameras rolling. So we look at videos of shark incidents, and we don't do fatalities. Um, and we analyze to see if we can figure out what species of shark it was. So it's actually very cool and scientific because we're looking at what species are in that area, what's the season? Like when I received all the videos, I would do the research beforehand, and then you know, we talked about it on camera, and we have some amazing women doing experiments and we're measuring bite marks, we're looking at, you know, the temperatures, the species. So I would always look at the season, the area, everything because all of that matters. You know, there are times of year when you have um, like there's a sardine run in Africa, or there are there's bait that comes through a certain time of year. So you know that you're gonna have like a higher incidence of a certain species of shark coming in. You look at the terrain, you look at what kind of prey is there, you look at so many different things in the videos and the experiences and the locations and what happened, the dynamics of the incident. And then we analyze and we break down and we make a decision on what shark we think it was that that had committed the crime in that case. So it's a very interesting show. I also think it's educational because hopefully what people walk away with is hey, listen, if you're going out and there's like a strong smell of sardines, uh, there might be a bait all around. Don't surf in that. Uh so that there are lessons to be gleaned away from that as well in terms of how we coexist and interact with sharks because we are going into their environment. So there are precautions that we can take to keep ourselves safer.

SPEAKER_05 53:28

Yeah.

unknown 53:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 53:30

I have a question for you. I read this book. So I swam um the Alcatraz to San Francisco a number of years ago, and I had this book on my shelf. And I was like, not till after I swim this, because I didn't want to know. But it's called The Devil's Teeth. Have you read that book?

SPEAKER_01 53:46

Susan Casey, The Devil's Teeth. Uh she's fantastic. I love Susan Casey. Um, her books are phenomenal, by the way. And yes, it was one of the first books that I read, and that book is actually what got me to Guadalupe because I wanted to go out to the Farallon Islands after reading that book because I found that book to be so fascinating. And I was looking and I remember there was some shark dive outfitter and in the Farallon Islands that had operated at the time, but the water looked really blue and clear, and I was like, there's no way that's the Farallon Islands. And it wasn't. They had a photo up there from Guadalupe, and because of that, I found uh Isla Guadalupe and started going out there. So Susan Casey, amazing author. That is a great book. Uh love it.

SPEAKER_05 54:28

Highly recommend that read to anybody who's interested in sharks. I'm gonna go read it. Yeah, read it.

SPEAKER_03 54:33

Read it.

SPEAKER_05 54:33

Yeah. It's so good. Devil's Tooth's Teeth, yeah. The devil's a couple great books. Wow. Yeah, so cool. Yeah. Um well, before we let you go, Kinga, I mean, you have so many more stories that I know I don't want to either, but I want to give people their their weekend. It's a it's a big weekend this weekend. Um quick question for you. What's the nicest thing anyone has ever done for you? It can be recent or something that just jogs your memory.

SPEAKER_01 55:04

Big or small. Oh my goodness. Oh, I'm so lucky, you guys, because I have the most amazing friends ever. And I just I'm lucky. But you know what? That's a great question. And I'm actually gonna bounce off a Courtney story because this is what popped into my head about random women helping each other. And this story's funny, which I think you girls will appreciate. Yeah. But I still think about this girl to this day, and I'm like, bless you wherever you are. So when I was in um San Francisco and I worked for Current TV, my roommate was one of my best friends, uh Johnny Bell. I'm gonna totally call him out right now. And I mean, he's such a dear friend. I was a groomsmaiden in his wedding. Like he's married to this amazing girl. He's so awesome. But at the time when he lived with me, he was like, he was like a player, right? And I would leave every single weekend and I would go back to LA. And Johnny would like go out and meet some ladies. He told me this after he did not share this with me while I lived there, and that he would like bring some ladies back to the apartment. And he uh so I it was a one-bedroom apartment and he literally lived on my pullout sofa, essentially. And so that that matters in the story. Yeah. So I had the bedroom was mine, and he like kind of lived there. And and I was just, I was never around, so it like totally worked. And he told me the story that he brings this girl home and she like comes in and she clocks that it's a one bedroom, and then she goes over to the fridge and she sees like photos of me on the fridge, and there's a bunch of like we work together. So, like there was him and I on there, and like, you know, other people, and she was like, You dirty dog, you have a girlfriend, and she's out of town. And he was like, No, no, no, no, no. She's my roommate, like she's my bestie, like she's my roommate. And she was like, This is a one-bedroom, absolutely not. And that girl bailed. And I was like, he told me that story years later, and I was like, bless her, bless her. She didn't know who I was, she had my back. Like that girl was like, You cheating bastard. Absolutely not. And took off. And to this day, like when you just said that story about all those women rallying, I was like, Yeah, you know what? I love it when women have each other's backs. And like wherever that girl is, I hope she is leading her best life right now. Because I I just thought I always thought that was the coolest story. I was like, Yeah, girlfriend. Absolutely. Good for you.

SPEAKER_03 57:29

And for the women that went there and stayed. What the fuck?

SPEAKER_01 57:33

Yeah, yeah. Right. We wish them diarrhea. That's that's always my worst thing to wish on people, is I wish them like explosive diarrhea at the most inopping moment. Yeah. Where you sweat and have panic attacks. Yes. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 57:45

I did it in Cuba with you, Kinga. Um I feel like I remember that. Lord. It was the worst. We were going horseback riding that morning. Oh shit. Courtney. Literally. It's been y'all. This is for another sh the episode, but I put in like maxi pads and everything because I was having diarrhea, and I was like, I am going horseback riding in Cuba with everyone. And if I shit all over myself, at least like I'll have some sort of barrier.

unknown 58:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 58:17

Did it help? Yeah, I took like eight Imodium you name it, charcoal. Yeah. Anyhow.

SPEAKER_03 58:22

Did you did you still poop on the horse? Did you poop on it?

SPEAKER_05 58:25

I did not, but there were moments where we'd stop and um we would go in, we were in the middle of like this beautiful plantation. And people would go inside a barn, and I was like, I can't go inside right now. It's too hot. Like I'm having that the sh the sweat. Sweats.

SPEAKER_02 58:43

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03 58:44

I'll just be outside with the horses while you guys, you know, learn about it. See you out there backing kicking stone. You're like kicking rocks. Poor Emily.

SPEAKER_01 58:54

My whole team got that in the Galapagos. There was like norovirus, and the hotel we were staying in had really thin walls. And I was I somehow got lucky and didn't get it. But all night I was like, oh, oh, oh, oh, someone's not doing well. Yeah. Our cameraman while filming had to run off into the bushes on several occasions.

SPEAKER_00 59:11

So what is heart?

SPEAKER_03 59:13

Oh, that's pretty that is oof.

SPEAKER_05 59:16

Kelastema. Oh, yeah, yeah. That's a whole nother episode. I've been talking with that about people. Is um what was your close encounter? Yeah. And everyone's had one.

SPEAKER_01 59:27

Or they're a liar.

SPEAKER_03 59:28

Everyone's had one. Yeah. I literally, for the first time, it happened to me when this and again another day, but it I'd never had it actually happen. And I was in the house running to get to the bathroom, and I had to use the the kids' bathroom because it was closer, and I shit my pants. I was like, holy, like I as much as terminology. That was my first time. I know. My mom has done it many times. My sister. So and I've done all sorts of disgusting shit. Like, I mean, but yeah, I it was yeah. Well, welcome. So now I come to the club. I'm so happy to be here because I felt less than because I hadn't had that experience. Because I like to tell all. Like I give too much. I tell too much. I, you know, that's just whatever. But so I'm like, all right, so now I I did it. So thanks.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:19

Well done, Courtney. We're all we're all in that. I'm I'm crying my allergy. I'm like, I'm crying about your poop story. Welcome to the club. Finally overall.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:33

Kinga, where can people find you?

SPEAKER_03 1:00:35

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:36

I mean, the really the only social media I have is Instagram. And that's Kinga Phillips, and it pushes through to Facebook, but I don't really ever go on Facebook. So that and then Shark Week in July. I think my show airs on July 30th at 8 p.m. Oh my god. Oh my god. Happy birthday.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:55

I'm literally I'll be with late. Oh my god. Oh, Kinga. Oh, nice. Nice, nice. Well, happy early birthday. Thing out. Yes, happy birthday. I'm gonna be 24.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:06

Yeah. Yeah. We're reverse aging at this point. I have one coming up too. Um uh and what else would you like to plug? Like what are I know shark allies and your water conservation work were shark allies is a big one.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:23

I mean, we have a we have a robust website where people can go learn about shark conservation and what they can do to help and to support. Um, Waves for Water is a great organization as well. So those are terrific. Absolutely. Yeah, you know, get out there, get out there and be your most imperfect conservate conservationist self. That's what we always say.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:42

You don't have to be perfect, you start somewhere. Absolutely. And both sites are awesome. I've been to them, and I was like, I need to stop looking up this woman because I was getting so excited to ask about shark. So I love it. But it's phenomenal. Like wow. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Coming on the podcast. Yes, please come back. We need to touch on the ayahuasca. I read your article. I mean, I have a lot of questions about that too. So please, we need you. We need Kinga, you got information you need to share. What are you doing next week?

unknown 1:02:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:16

Yeah. Next week is not that exciting. I've got a lot of Zoom meetings, you guys. Oh my god. Those are scarier than sharks. Absolutely they are. They are.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:27

Um, well, thank you everyone for listening. Please, if you have any other questions for Kinga and would like us to get those in front of her, please email us at that wasn't the planpod at gmail.com. If you have any stories you'd like to share, please share there as well. We're on the social media. Please, you can look for Kinga there as well on Instagram. Um anything else I'm forgetting, Courtney? Any other questions?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:50

Oh, just the Kinga. Kinga, Kinga, Kinga. You're just the coolest.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:54

I know. I love you girls. So fangirling. I mean, I've fan I fangirled about a lot of folks on the this podcast, but I'm telling you, Kinga.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:04

You're the freaking cool sweating. Like, it's just so much people.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:09

I we're also, I'm like, I'm like, I need to go take a Zertec. You're sweating. We're falling apart over here, ladies.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:16

We're falling apart. Oh my gosh. But something about talking about sharks with you has just been the light of my day. So thank you so much. It'll make a great summer.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:24

Thank you, everyone. Thank you, Kinga. Thank you, Courtney. And until we talk to you next week. Bye. Bye. Thanks for listening to That Wasn't the Plan. If you found it helpful or at least mildly entertaining, a quick grading review and a click on the subscribe button would be lovely. And it genuinely helps us. And if a friend comes to mind, please share. Until next time. Bye.