That Wasn't The Plan
That Wasn't The Plan
Human stories for those struggling to be human.
A podcast for anyone whose life took a left turn when you were peacefully asleep.
Life doesn't come with a script—thank god, because ours would've been returned for rewrites.
Warning: May cause unexpected feelings, snort-laughing, and the overwhelming urge to text us your own "that wasn't the plan" story.
Join co-hosts Emily White and Courtney Holland as they navigate the beautiful disasters, plot twists, and "well, that happened" moments that nobody warned you about. From bed bugs, winning the lottery, breaking your neck, and finding a furry lump on the side of the road that turns out to be your best friend.
We're here to talk about the stuff that wasn't in your life plan: Getting sober. Couch-surfing at 35. Teaching Jazzercise in a thong leotard at 5 AM (Courtney looks great, by the way). Death showing up uninvited. Your career ghosting you.
Each episode brings you real stories, terrible advice, excellent commiseration, and the reminder that if your life feels like a dumpster fire, at least you're in good company.
New episodes drop weekly. Follow us wherever you get your podcasts, because we all need witnesses to this beautiful mess.
Remember: Just because it wasn't the plan doesn't mean it wasn't supposed to happen.
That Wasn't The Plan
We Left With Nothing
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
This week, we sit down with my friend Jen Quam Howell (JQ), who—on an otherwise unremarkable night—was woken up by her husband with the words no one prepares for: “The house is on fire. We have to go.”
What follows is exactly what you’d expect and nothing like you’d expect.
Three young kids. One terrifying exit down a burning staircase. A total loss. A hotel room that becomes “hometel.” And a community that quietly, relentlessly shows up—with spreadsheets, sweatpants, and the occasional replacement bra.
We talk about what happens in the immediate aftermath of losing everything, the strange logistics of starting over, and the long tail of trauma that doesn’t politely disappear once the house is rebuilt.
It’s about resilience, yes. But more than that, it’s about people—neighbors, friends, family—who step in when life goes completely off-script.
Equal parts devastating, darkly funny, and unexpectedly hopeful.
Because sometimes the plan burns down.
And you build something anyway.
That wasn't the plan.
SPEAKER_04Hey Emily, my goodness. Hey, Courtney Holland. How are you doing? I'm pretty good, Emily White. I feel good. Hey, everybody.
SPEAKER_05All our disgruntled listeners. Welcome to That Wasn't the Plan. My mom. Hi, Mom.
SPEAKER_04Hey, mom. Thanks for listening, mom.
SPEAKER_05My friend Susan, who is our number one fan. She listens to the town. Hello. Yeah. Hey, Susan. Um, well, before we start, I have a very special guest. All of our guests are very special, but this actually happens to be one of my favorite people, in addition to yourself, Courtney Holland, on the planet. Her name is Jen Quam Howell. I call her JQ. I think she's just gone by JQ her entire life. What a great nickname. I know. She's so rad. She's got a bachelor's degree from Virginia Tech. And then after she graduated, she went to Johnson Wales University in Denver, where I met her in culinary school. We went to culinary school back in the day together. Wild. I know. She's got over two decades of experience spanning hospitality, event design, event production, and sales leadership, including senior roles in catering and event firms during her time in Virginia and Denver. She currently is the assistant regional director of engagement at Virginia Tech Alumni Relations, leading alumni engagement and events for Virginia Tech across multiple regions. She is married to a lovely gentleman named Paul Howell for I'm gonna guess close to 20 years now. And they've got they have three very active, lively, swimming alligator boys.
SPEAKER_04I do. Three boys.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. She's just the cutest thing with the best southern drawl. Um, so welcome to the podcast, JQ.
SPEAKER_03Yay, Jake. That wasn't the plan.
SPEAKER_01Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_05Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01You're adorable. You're really perfect. That was quite an introduction, Emily. I am very impressed.
SPEAKER_05I was gonna name your boys. I know you've got Fisher. And then I'm I as soon as you say the other two names, it'll come to me. Sully and Ferris. Sully and Ferris.
SPEAKER_01So yep. So just turning 13 is Ferris, just turned 14 is Sully, and Fisher 16 and a half.
SPEAKER_05So my God.
SPEAKER_01And he is every bit of 16 and a half. Driving, we're doing all the things.
SPEAKER_04How are you handling that? Three teenage boys. It's a really good question.
SPEAKER_01So I got to you on that.
SPEAKER_04I'd like to.
SPEAKER_05If I know anybody, it's JQ who could manage three boys.
SPEAKER_01You know what? I wouldn't know what to do with a girl if she walked in here. Fisher's girlfriend is the first girl that's really been in our house. And it's like such a different world. So I'm thank goodness I had boys. Apparently that was what was supposed to happen. Yeah. Wow. You're like, I'll raise these. Yes indeed.
SPEAKER_04Do they um can I ask you, do they ever, do they clean up after themselves ever? Um asking for a friend.
SPEAKER_01But sometimes they do. We're still working on that. Um I pledge to have you know independent men when they leave this home and not boys that are going to be depending on women to do their work for them.
SPEAKER_02So it's baby steps though, you know, like with every year they get a little bit stronger.
SPEAKER_04Can you write a book? Have you written a book? Can I read your book? I have not. Courtney's got a house full of men as well. Well, there are he has five children, and they are, you know, it's as though I birthed them, but I did not. I met them when they were already like over the age of 15. Um, and it's been a wild ride, I'll tell you that much. It's been wild.
SPEAKER_01So you know, yeah. Yeah. But you know what? It's crazy and the jokes are raunchy, and I wouldn't have it any other way, right? Yeah. Like it's real fun. It is. It is.
SPEAKER_05But you've had some rough times too, I'm sure. We have.
SPEAKER_01We have indeed. Including the one that I'm gonna talk about today. Ooh, yeah. Um, so I guess I'll say it. Our house burned down. What? Back in 2018. Um crazy time. Yeah. And actually, it we're coming up on the anniversary. It was March the 3rd in 2018. So the irony of talking about this now is that we all have compartmentalized this trauma, you know, into various boxes. And those boxes really start to open as we get closer to March every single year. Really? Even when you don't think they're going to, even when you think that you're like, man, I'm so like I have made massive progress. Our bodies, and my therapist tells me that your body remembers the trauma, right? And it's just, it's it's going, it's a cycle. And I get to this time of year and I start to have the reactions that that I have. And so knowing that I was gonna talk to you guys about this today actually was kind of a double-edged sword because I started to really unpack and process again, which I hadn't done since probably last year when I packed it all up and tucked it away. Literally. Um, but in a good way, because like I said, I I've compartmentalized it and there's just so many different boxes. And I can I can tap which one and and open it up, and there's always like a memory that I hadn't thought about that brings me some joy. There's also memories that are obviously terrifying. Um but yeah, it's um, and it happens to all of us. Every single person in this house has this cyclical traum trauma that reappears. And so I'm always on the lookout for it because I'm watching the kids to see how they're how they're managing at this time of year. And and my husband, how he manages. Um and like, you know, as a mom and as a woman, we're never usually looking out for how we are going to react, right? Yeah, and it sneaks up on me every time. So, not this year though. I was in charge of my unpacking.
SPEAKER_05Oh yeah. We're gonna have you talk about it right now. This is a therapy session. We're gonna have man shit.
SPEAKER_04And I love the women we have on here. They've all therapy, therapy, therapy.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_04Oh, we've always been therapy.
SPEAKER_01Always I we waited too long to start therapy for ourselves. Everything was about our kids, right? Which is of course, yeah. Um, and my therapist has been huge to remind me that we were doing the best we could with what we knew and how to do at the time, right? Like that's a good therapist. And I'm grateful that we did have them get the help that we've had for them along the way. But yeah, we everybody needs therapy, especially when they go through something.
SPEAKER_05Oh, yeah. Absolutely. I unfortunately had to quit doing therapy shortly after I was diagnosed with cancer because I couldn't afford it. Oh. And I haven't been able to do it since because I can't afford it. I mean, it's expensive. Yeah, I was going once a week. It's $175 a week. I'm sure I can find, you know, a less expensive therapist.
SPEAKER_04Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Yeah. We're gonna work on that, Emily.
SPEAKER_05I didn't demand well, because I never have really processed what I went through. And it shows up every day of my life. Yes. Um, but yes. So thank you for bringing that up. You know, folks, this podcast is actually my therapy session. So thank you for turning in. No, it is.
SPEAKER_04Therapy is huge. 100% process it only.
SPEAKER_01Yep. It's not like I'm going to therapy and my therapist is like delivering these like life. I mean, they are actually life-changing, but like it's not some scientific method that she's it's talking and being like, yeah, you're human. And this is why you did that. And like give yourself a break.
SPEAKER_02And you, I haven't been able to afford therapy. Well, that's a really hella good reason, right? So, like, don't beat yourself up for it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Oh, yeah, don't. I'm not, I'll beat choked for you.
SPEAKER_05I leave that to my friends. Yeah. All right. Well, JQ, um, set the scene for me. Like, take us back to that night of March 3rd, 2018, or, you know, leading up to the event. You know, you guys, I happen to know it's at night. So you guys going to bed, what happened? Everybody's sound asleep, the age of the boys, kind of what your lives were like at that time, working full time, what was going on?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So my husband, up until recently, has always been in the restaurant industry, hospitality industry. Um, and so he he had later nights, you know, and would come home. And so it was not rare for me to go to bed or him to be on the couch, right? Like on a Saturday night and or a Friday night. I believe it was a Friday night. I took the dog out, was heading up to bed, said goodnight. And I had Ferris with me, who was four at the time. His birthday is March 7th. So his birthday was approaching. Paul's birthday is also March 5th. So that was directly after. So and my husband, at some point in the middle of the night, woke up and he said he's it sounded like the the house was just arcing. It was just this crazy noise in the home. And he was like, What is going on? And when he looked out our front window, um, he looked like the lawn was on fire. But what it was was the reflection of our house in in the in the glass window. And the fire alarms had not started to go off yet, but they did at some point. And then, but what he realized was the entire front of our house was on, was on fire. Um, from our front door, which is where our stairwell goes up, over to like another front room. And what I recall is him shaking me awake and saying, the house is on fire, we have to go, and me getting Ferris. And he ran down the hall. He um at the time Sully had just turned six. Fisher was eight, and they were having a sleepover in Fisher's room on the bunk beds. And Paul got them off the bunk beds, and we met at the top of the stairs. And by this point, the fire was very much so right in our face, like at the bottom of the stairs. The door was obliterated, right? It was there. And we went down very carefully. I had Ferris, the little boys were right with me. Paul was behind him. We edged around the banister and we went straight out to our deck and down into the yard out the back. And it was about that time that we realized that we didn't have our dogs, that they were they were here, they were in the bedroom. And we stood there and we had a moment of what do we do? And I I told my husband, you can't go back because you can't. Um and this is gonna sound completely ridiculous, but that show, This Is Us, was on at the time. And they had just had that episode with the fire, and the husband had gone back in and ended up dying because his like had, you know, and I in my head I was like, he could go in and and take too much smoke and and die. He might not ever come back in.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So um by this point, there were people in our front yard. Um, there was actually a group of like teenagers who were, I don't know, were driving around. It was like 1:30, 2 o'clock in the morning. And they were the one of them was one of the first ones to call 911. And um, and we were like, okay, well, the the fire department will be here any second and they'll get the dogs, right? Yeah. And the next sort of hour is just a big blur. Um, and I've done a lot of trying to process this with my therapist of where were the kids? Were they with me? Did I have them in my hands? Did were they just like by themselves in the middle of the front lawn? Like, no, they I had them. Varis was small, he was attached to me. Um, where were my clothes? You know, like did I have clothes on? Like there's so many like pieces that are just still a mystery. Um, at some point, the our neighbors across the street who were like uh just lifesavers during all of this, um, brought me some shorts or pants or something, I think. You weren't wearing clothes. Mostly naked. I I mean, I think I had a t-shirt on. And also it was it was like a nor'easter, so which is what caused this fire, right? Which is wild because there's a nor'easter coming right now. Um, and so the winds were crazy. We were one of many fires that night, but we were like the really the most devastating fire in this region. And wow, um, they never did determine exactly how it started. It could have been something as simple as somebody flicking a cigarette butt out their window and and it traveled. It it could have been somebody putting out their um their chimney, their like fireplace remnants or a fire pit. Could have been anything, it could have been electrical. They um the fire department checked that because we had a um like a kid's toy with a one of those crazy batteries plugged in in our front at the time. And so it we don't know, but we do know that the whole house was considered a total loss. And um, that's what we woke up to the next day. So that night the Red Cross came. Um, that was an experience that I I'll never forget and gave me so much appreciation for what they do. Um checking us out, giving us a check card with money on it, because that was all we were gonna have, right? For right then, like none of that had sunk in yet. Um, our neighbors, of course, giving us a a place to sleep on the couch and me waking up at five in the morning and going, oh my god, not that I even ever slept, but you know, like the realization that, like, oh my god, this really fucking happened. And so, yeah. So my husband absolutely saved our lives. Um, we got out. Um, I will tell you that the fire department were able to locate our dogs. Uh, they revived our old guy, Walter, um, who was um uh uh about six at the time. Um, but Johnny Banjo, our beloved pug, who we had had since Paul and I were dating, he did not make it. Um they did find them together um and said that that um the smoke uh took them before the fire itself. But you know, I watched a fire man, firewoman actually revive our dog. And that was incredible. This poor guy, he um he was a puggle Pekingese mix, like life of the party, this guy, right? Yeah, it was insane. He spent about two weeks in um the vet hospital. Um, you know, his eyes, he couldn't open his eyes for a really long time. Um, and he, I can't even tell you the joy that we had bringing him home when I got to bring him home that day. It was like the kids were ecstatic. Yeah, absolutely. Losing Johnny was one of the hardest. Oh gosh. Yeah. For all of us, it was one, especially for the kids, it was one of the most devastating parts of this. So, given the time of year, right? It was right after Christmas. It was right after my my middle Sully's birthday, and it was right before Ferris's birthday. So there were a lot of things that were lost, um gained again. I I recently found this video that the boys had um that was downloaded to my iPhone because like they had kid plans or whatever. And you know, they all think they're YouTubers at all times. And we had just moved back, we had just moved back into the house, and Sully and Ferris were going room to room, like talking about like that this was this room, and they were just back in and like like you know, make sure you like in my video. You know, but they subscribe. Like, subscribe. Um, but they were showing their viewers, you know, that the house now that they were moved in after their fire. And um, and Paul and I were watching this and we were just like silent, right? Like, okay, like to like deep breaths. Like in that moment, they seemed very secure and like emotionally intact. Um but we know in reality, it was there was so much more to that that was happening. So yeah, that's sort of that's the lay of the land. Um where did you guys stay like the next night and for so um so when I mentioned I mentioned earlier to you guys that I have like these compartmentalized boxes of everything of the fire. So some of the most joyful pieces of the fire include my college roommate Martha, who you met when we went to Aspen. Aspen. Aspen. Yeah. Aspen. Um she she's in Richmond and she flew in hot with a um a Vera Bradley bag that I still have with sweatpants, a Virginia Tech Hokie sweatpants and a RVA sweatshirt and some socks, probably. And swoop socks. Helped us get the kids to our neighbors up the street, um, helped us sit and talk and figure out what we were gonna do next and make the calls to our insurance company. And actually, it was her. She had, as part of her apartment complex, had this like um visitor's house, like guest house, and was able to book it for a few days.
SPEAKER_05Oh, wow.
SPEAKER_01So that's where we immediately went with the clothes on our backs. Like we had nothing else. Um and we stayed there until we weren't allowed to sit there anymore. We had like, I think it was like three, three days, four days max. And that is when we began our lovely stay in the Hyatt. Um, well, not bad mouth the Hyatt. They have a wonderful uh buff morning breakfast buffet. The kids lived off of it for a very long time.
SPEAKER_04God bless them. You didn't have to worry about feeding them in the morning, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Well, breakfast. The other food was um, yeah, that's another story. But yeah, so that we moved into a hotel, and in retrospect, like if I ever had to do this again, I'm gonna tell you what, it would be at a like residential inn, not at a hyatt with one bed and a couch. Because that shit was crazy.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, we lived in a Marriott for a while with five people, a cat and a dog in one room. So two beds, a cot, a cat and a dog. Well, yes. Yes, that's yeah. This is in the middle of the school year. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_01That is accurate. Um, this was in the middle of the school year, and school was coming on that Monday, right? Um, my sister came. She came up for the day, brought my father, they brought the kids some toys. And another friend, this is another one of those pieces in the good box, Vicky. She showed up to our house with book bags for all the kids. Like one of those things I'll never forget. But it was also like the realization, like, oh my God, like, do we send them to school? Do we not send them to school? Their house just burned down. What do we do?
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And the thing is, they had nowhere they could go. Our house was absolutely obliterated. Um, the only person that was gonna be in there was me with a mask, inventorying what I could. So they did. They went to school. And then they came home. I would get them uh from preschool, Ferris was in preschool, and I would get the boys from elementary school and take them to our hotel. Uh, they also were in sports at the time, which again, in retrospect, right, like I was so adamant to keep them busy and to try to do things. Sure. And I was uh wore us out, right, running up and down. That was not a hotel that was close to like our neighborhood. Um and I just I have these visions of like of them just being collapsed in the bed together and me being like, what was I thinking? Trying to make them play baseball. Like it's the last thing those kids were.
SPEAKER_05Keep them moving. I agree. Uh if not, they're just gonna sit around and you you have to try and keep their lives as normal and stable as possible.
SPEAKER_01That that was the goal. And you know, that was what we were, that's what we were really trying to do. So yeah, they were going to school and they were homeless. Um, some other friends through my husband brought us over a ton of clothes to our location, and we sorted out clothes that would fit the kids. And I had some people collecting things for me here in my neighborhood. My girlfriends just hit the ground running with like Amanda up the street had a spreadsheet, and she was like, What do you need? Yeah. And she and they had a meeting, and they they I came to this meeting and they were like, This is what we're doing. Yeah. And they were like, We're getting new clothes. How much money do you need? My sister had set up a GoFundMe. Clothes were being delivered daily to our neighbor across the street. Like it became an operation of helping us. And so between like just random people showing up and handing us like a gift card to Chick-fil-A to boxes of clothes. Um, some usable, some not, right? Like, yeah, we were like, well, we'll take. Every little tiny thing we held on to every little thing and it became what we had.
SPEAKER_05Um leave women to organize and to make what was happening.
SPEAKER_01Yep.
SPEAKER_03Who did that spreadsheet? Who did that spreadsheet?
SPEAKER_01My friend Amanda did that spreadsheet.
SPEAKER_03Freaking Amanda.
SPEAKER_01I know. I know. I know. Friendships change over time, obviously. Um, and so there are women in in my neighborhood that we were all once really, really tight, and life happens and things change and whatever. And but there are those pieces of the puzzle that I will never literally ever forget for how certain people did certain things, bringing us food in the hotel because they knew we didn't have dinner and we had to we had to source dinner every night with in a hotel with no kitchen. Um until we and then eventually we moved into the apartment and we still had people bringing us food. It was incredible. Um to putting together clothes bins and going to buy me a purse because I didn't have one. You know, like there I there are little pieces that I remember that I will never forget and and who exactly who was involved and how important it it was for me, even though I might not have even really realized like the gravity of it at the time.
SPEAKER_05So of course, yeah, you're so in it and you forget. I've had to go back through and read through things and cards and just remember who did what for me because at the time you're in the middle of some very traumatic experience and you can't always process those memories right then and there, but they live somewhere. They do, they do, somewhere in a treasure chest. I need the key to mine, but not hey, it's all right. That's all right because you know this old memory ain't what she used to be. Yes. Um I understand that too. Okay, so you went from your home tell at the the what's it the Hyatt to an apartment. How long were you at the at the hotel before you moved into an apartment?
SPEAKER_01We were at the apartment we were at the hometown for about a month and a half. We were there for a very long time. Um but it felt our insurance company was they were trying. We were trying to find a rental property that we could move into. Um there was just nothing. And so eventually we moved into an apartment. Um and it wasn't far from our house, which was great because it allowed us to bring the kids back and forth and go to the pool over the summer and also just keep an eye on the house. Um go mow the lawn, you know? Like wow.
SPEAKER_05Um just sitting there still kind of smoldering at that point. I don't, I mean, do they come in and start to tear things out?
SPEAKER_01They did. I actually pulled a couple of photos from I don't know if you can see this, but like that is like in the month after. Um and so what happened was like even though these windows are still like intact there, the smoke had pulled from like this is the front door all the way, and the fire itself had pulled up to the bedroom that our sons were in at the very end of the house. Oh my god. And so it was just the design of the home. They fixed it when they rebuilt our house. But whatever the air, whatever, however that works, it the air was pulled directly that way. So the fire just went straight up the stairs and straight to the back of the house.
SPEAKER_04Oh my god.
SPEAKER_01So um everything had it was a total loss. The entire house was taken down to the studs and then rebuilt. Um, and so every single thing we owned was thrown away. We had some stuff that we marked as we would like to try to save. And this really awesome guy, Randy, who owned the cleanup company here, came and he was like, okay, he took a look at the pile. Um, he took, he took what he could and brought back what he could at a certain point. It's things like you don't think about, like we lost all of our Christmas decorations, like ornaments and things like that. Some of that came back. Some of that came back that we weren't expecting to come back. It was Randy worked his magic. Randy somehow managed to save. Randy somehow managed to save like all of our CDs that we hadn't pulled out in a really long time. He's like, no one thing.
SPEAKER_04Like we got Pearl Gym, Soundgarden, we're good. We're good. Exactly. Like, thank God for that.
SPEAKER_01No, I mean, you know, we took every everything he was able to save was like absolutely priceless. But the kids, you know, they lost everything. We we saved, we came back into the house and got their like stuffies that they sleep with and had those like industrial clean um like five times to try to salvage them and they still have them. Uh they we were able to get those back into their hands.
SPEAKER_05That's oh my gosh. That's social.
SPEAKER_01Wow.
SPEAKER_05Talk to me about, you know, you moved into an apartment and you're now thinking about rebuilding this and that, and how that works with insurance and the logistics of doing all of that.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, that's a real bitch. I'll tell you that. My insurance company for the most part was pretty decent. They they were pretty decent. Did they put a roof on my house that was half one other color and half a different color? They sure did because you know they didn't think they had to replace the whole thing, but I called them and told them they needed to get their shit together and they did, right? Like good. Here's a picture of what you've just done to my house. Um so we had to inventory everything. And of course, after the fact, you hear that there are these companies that do this for you. Well, we didn't know that, and we didn't have anyone that had been through this to tell us how to do it, right? We were just making it up as we went along.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_01So I was in here daily with a giant uh, you know, oxygen mask on, walking through just destroyed rooms, trying to remember exactly what was here. Because in order to recoup, you had to provide them with the list of everything. And our list was like a mile long. Of course, every single thing. Right. And so then what happens is they are also working with a company to come in and redo your house. And so there are different elements to what's covered: your personal items, the home, also like the recoup, um, your rent at your new place. But like they didn't recoup, we didn't, we weren't able to recoup all the expenses that we had of like feeding our kids every night, living out of a hotel, right? Like and things like that. So we learned a lot. You also had to spend money in order to get money back. So, like, well, we'll replace these items for you that's on this list, but you need to go ahead and purchase new items, right? And then we'll reimburse you for them. Right. And so ponying up for thousands and thousands of dollars in just stuff you're trying to, I mean, right, is not something that anyone is prepared to do. Like, certainly not us. We, you know, we were uh just doing the best we could to begin with, right? Right. Um, my sister had collected through a GoFundMe for us. Again, one of those things that I'll never forget. It allowed me to take time and say, I'm gonna take a pause for my job because there was no way that I could work, Paul Paul could work, and we could manage a house that was burnt down and manage our kids. Yeah. So I stopped and went into like mama bear mode, um, inventorying the house, taking care of this. Um, I remember going into Target and buying everybody a pillow with money from that go fund me and just being so grateful that like I could go buy everybody a new pillow because like we didn't have pillows. Um, and I could bring them all to the to the hotel, right? Um, so but but the insurance is tricky and the rebuild is tricky. You know, they're fighting you for every little thing. Like, well, that, you know, we're gonna put basic everything in here. And I'm like, no, I'm pretty sure those were like decent lights. Can we get you know, my friend Rachel, who is an interior designer, is incredible. She sat down with us and was like, okay, like let's let's figure out what you want it to look like when you come back and helped us make the choices to tell the construction company how to do things because we had no idea what we were doing. And they would have just come in and just slabbed anything on just to give it the the least of their concern, right? Right, right. So she was just incredibly helpful, not even not only just as because she was like my best friend and doing things because she's so helpful, but like she sat with us and looked at every light fixture that we would need to pick out and every toilet and mirror and like so yeah, but then that that stuff also took on some like joy, you know, like that became joyous. We became excited to move back in. Oh my god. Um the reconstruction, they did not start. This happened in March. I got a text from my neighbor Kim across the street. Um, I want to say July-ish.
SPEAKER_02And she was like, There's a company here, they dropped a bin. Like that, something's happening. And we were like, holy shit! Something's happening. Oh my gosh. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_01And, you know, and the next thing we know, for the first time in months and months, the dilapidated eyesore of the burnt down house on the street was finally getting torn apart and and uh new wood was going in. And so we oh, that's gotta be a good feeling. Yeah. Once they started, they they were at it. And we were back in this house by the end of October.
SPEAKER_06Oh, wow.
SPEAKER_01It wasn't finished. Um, we were still, but we were able to get in it. We were able to get in this house and live in it. And the timing couldn't have been better because our, you know, we were out of rent money, right? Um gosh. And so it was like, okay, great, we need to be in there. But uh, you know, you know, funny things like we moved back in. It turns out like the gas line had been cut to the house um because of the fire. So they had to come dig up the whole yard and put a new gas line in and move the, you know, everybody was like, why do you not have a gas line? We're like, because our house burned down. I don't know. Somebody cut the gas line. Oh god. So there were just all these like crazy things. But I have a ton of just like great memories and pictures of us coming here every day with the boys and being able, and and I have a video of us like, we have floors upstairs, you know, and them being able to run from room to room and see the floor, like look out the windows. And it became real again that like they had a house, they had a home. And we were coming back to their home. It felt like centuries before they started. And then we were in. Um, we had um various things that they had to continue to work on, like into 2019. Um, ironically, they were supposed to come back and do their punch lists, you know, like that two-year list. But guess what? It was COVID.
SPEAKER_00Oh, so they were saved by the bell. Like they never had to come back in and and you know, fine finish anything.
SPEAKER_01But but it was good. It was done. We moved back in. Um just in time to get locked down.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, just in time. She had a good home to do it in.
SPEAKER_04Exactly. Well, yeah, and you guys were like, we're like, all right, let's I mean, right?
SPEAKER_01I mean, I remember I specifically remember unloading the dishwasher and thinking, uh, I will never not be grateful to do this. I mean, that passed. But I definitely was grateful.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_04I will love this every moment of my life here on the phone.
SPEAKER_01And I was like, okay, yeah, I'm good now.
SPEAKER_00But yeah, I'm overdoing the dishes. You guys want to help out? Yeah, right. Yeah, exactly. Anybody want to step in? Turns out you can get sick of doing the dishes again even after, you know.
SPEAKER_05So did you guys basically rebuild the same house, same layout, or similar?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we built the same house. We changed the layout downstairs, we opened it up a little bit, made it more the house was built in the 80s. We were able to open up the downstairs and make it like open, whatever it's called, a floor plan. Concept of open floor. Which now we're just slowly trying to box it back up.
SPEAKER_00So we're like, what were we thinking? We need more rooms with doors.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00There's too many people running wild in this house.
SPEAKER_04Just everybody's looking at each other, doing whatever they're doing. That's funny. Right.
SPEAKER_00No. I'm like, I need my walls back.
SPEAKER_01Um, but no, we had we had help. Uh Rachel's dad actually came over and you know, strong arms the construction company and got us what we needed to put a beam in and open it up. And yeah, that's good. Um, and so that was also that brought us some joy to like come back to this just like incredibly refreshing. I mean, new to us.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Right. Yeah. So let me ask you this. Now that you want more walls and everything, did how did this um like strain your family, your marriage? And also in what ways did it possibly strengthen those connections? Because I'm sure it was both.
SPEAKER_01Great, great, great, great question. So as I mentioned earlier, we we were immediately very concerned about the well-being of our kids. And that has not, that has not changed. We have had ups and downs um in and out of therapy over the years. Like I said also earlier, like we get to a point where we seem like everybody's like really past it. It's not as crazy as it once was, right? Like I used to not be able to look down the stairs and not see fire.
SPEAKER_06Oh, wow.
SPEAKER_01That passed eventually, right? Like things got better and they got better for everybody. But Paul and I did, we put off our own therapy for a really long time. And he never missed a day of work. He kept going. He took on so much like of the stress of this. And he had to be at work, right? Because somebody had to.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, and just the thought of what if he hadn't woke up and and the fact that he did save us, like at the same time, like two things can be true. I mean, 15 things can be true at the same time, like so grateful and then so scared. Um we've we have had yearly conversations where we come up and we we pick apart every single thing that happened and like the guilt we carry for this or for that. And but both of us being in therapy uh was has been life-changing for that.
SPEAKER_05Were you in therapy prior to or did therapy start after?
SPEAKER_01No, okay. Yeah, yeah. And really, I I mean, I didn't start therapy until like two years ago. So like pretty recent in the grand scheme of things. Um, and for him, it's really been like a year. So we dabbled with some therapy after, and I I don't think either of us were at a place where we could really open up and talk. And so it just we just didn't, right? I mean, we've been married, yeah, 20 years almost. Like incredible. At a baseline, you have hard years and years that are tough, and like you're growing, and work is hard and life is hard, and relationships are hard, and aging family, and there's all these other things. And so sometimes you feel selfish when you're like, but this one thing, you know, we still want to talk about. And but but it it's also been a bonding experience. Um, we'll always look at those photos of the kids in the hotel room the night or a few days later, and our hearts will ache, right? Um, but we also like will together remember the joy of getting back in here and what we've built since. And it it comes, it it it's cyclical. Like I said, it it comes back around. Um, he right before I sat down to talk to you guys, he sent me a text. He was like, everything is okay, just breathe. Because he knew yesterday I was spiraling. I was like, oh my God, I'm thinking of all of these. I was having all but I but it I this would have happened whether I was gonna talk to you guys or not. I just I initiated it as opposed to it coming to me. I I opened the door for it. Um of all the things that you think about. Yeah, you took control.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah. So yeah.
SPEAKER_05Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_01Did I even answer your question? I feel like I spiraled there for 20 minutes.
SPEAKER_05That's okay. You can use it was great. You did. Unbelievable.
SPEAKER_01It's a work in progress. I mean, honestly, we will I will be uh talking about this uh when I see my therapist next week and I tell her that I talk to you guys, and I, you know, uh like I said earlier too, she has been a game changer in just being like, hey, remember where you were that night and like your house burnt down and you were standing there with your three kids, and and you were doing the absolute best you could with the information that you had at the time. Like, sure, you can think back and be like, God, I wish I had done this and done this, and why didn't I do this? But like you were doing exactly what you could and could have done. Those things might not have even been options at the time. Um, and so letting go of of that like guilt of which we'll never be able to completely let go of, right?
SPEAKER_05But no, you went straight into survival mode to protect what you had to protect, which was your blood and flesh in that moment of sheer crisis. Yeah. Yes. And I think that's what you did. That's what anybody would just do immediately. Everything just everything else becomes a blur in that instant. And you just have to focus on what do I need right now? I need my babies.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And that's exactly what we did. That is exactly what we did. So yeah, Sam would say yes. That is correct.
SPEAKER_05That's Sam. I don't know.
SPEAKER_01She's pretty great.
SPEAKER_05She's pretty great. So now that you're, I would say on the other side of it, but it lives in you daily, and clearly, you know, it comes up seasonally or you know, annually of this time of year. What precautions do you take now that you know maybe you didn't take before?
SPEAKER_01Well, um, I can't even tell you if we had a fire extinguisher in our house. I guarantee we didn't. Um, it wasn't it wasn't on our radar. It we had why would we need a fire extinguisher? I mean, I think back at now and I'm like, oh my God, uh, we have like five fire extinguishers strategically placed throughout our home. Absolutely. Um, for better or worse. Oh, for a long time, I could not go anywhere with the kids without needing to know exactly what that home was prepared for. Um, you know, do is there a fire extinguisher? Are the fire alarms working? Holy smokes.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Uh you would be amazed at how many vacation homes do not come with fire detectors and CO2 and things of that nature. Yeah. Um, and so when you are looking to vacation, it depends on the state and what the state requires. Um, we had a really, really bad house fire at a house at the Outer Banks a couple years ago, I want to say, two or three years ago. And and it was a rental home, and the, I mean, it was tragic.
SPEAKER_02Were you there?
SPEAKER_01And the fail no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. It was someone else's. And they the the home was not, the home wasn't prepared for um a fire. And I just remember being like, oh my God. Like, yeah, they were in North Carolina and the houses didn't require it. So uh we definitely think about that. We've we've relaxed over the years about like just how protective we were. But yeah, like I I would not have let my kids spend the night out um anywhere. Um my lord. They I could not have them out of my sight.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. Absolutely not.
SPEAKER_01So, but we are we're protected. We we talk about what would happen if something like that were to ever happen again, which again, they we didn't have a plan. But I will also say two things can be true at the same time. They were too young to have had a plan. Yeah. Um, you know, there are a lot of people that will tell you, well, you know, have a plan, you meet outside, and everybody goes out their window. I'm here to tell you that there is no world that I live in that my house would be on fire, that I would not be going to their rooms. Absolutely. Right to get to make sure they're getting out. Oh, that's wild.
SPEAKER_05Meet me outside is not something that's why why why didn't the five year old jump out the top window there like we instructed him to?
SPEAKER_02Just make a pin up ladder and they'll meet you outside.
SPEAKER_01No, they won't because you're right. You're fight or flight, the o uh We were able to fly because my husband forced us and and got us moving.
unknownGod.
SPEAKER_01And there was smoke already in here. Like it was already permeating. I I think being able to talk about it and as a family and think about what you would do, but what happens in the moment is you're going to into life-saving.
SPEAKER_05The best plans laid out, but it's when that moment hits, it's all gonna go out the window and you're just gonna do whatever you have to do to make it out of that situation at that time.
SPEAKER_01Right. Wow. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. If somebody listening to this um experienced like a catastrophic loss tomorrow, do you have any practical advice that you would give them, like next steps within the next 72 hours or emotional advice, even?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um, well, first off, talking to someone and and uh having some sort of advocate that knows what they're doing. Yeah. Uh with insurance with all of that. And that's gonna come uh definitely getting in to speak to someone, taking your kids to their pediatrician immediately and letting them direct you to the best next thing. When we saw our pediatrician, uh, they were like, oh my God, we've been so worried about you guys. We saw your house on the fire and this and that. And it never even occurred to me to call our pediatrician and to let them know and to like schedule an appointment. I just went straight to like, we've got to find a therapist. How am I gonna do this? They could have helped us do this, right?
SPEAKER_04Like, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, you do not have to be the smartest person in the room. You just need to find those people that can help you. When I found out there were companies that would come in inventory your home, I was like, what? I've been in here for weeks and a gas mask. Like, I'm not to pass out. I'm not to fall through like broken ceiling boards, like questioning every decision I've ever made in my life. Like somebody could have done this. I could have maybe stayed employed. You know, like you would you just don't know. You would see and you don't know until you know, right? Like you don't know until you don't until you know you know about cancer, right? And you know when you meet someone that has gone through cancer now that no one else knows until they know. Right. And when I see a house fire on the news, it's it's kind of like that. Like my husband and I both, like we stop and we look at it, and it's almost like a moment of silence for like someone else that now has to have that experience that no one should ever have to have. No one should ever have to throw all their things away and all their kids' toys away and um all their memories um close, you know.
SPEAKER_03Your bras. I can't stop thinking about the bras. Oh, I know.
SPEAKER_01Like, oh they're so expensive.
SPEAKER_03I know they're like $80. And you can't just like gr get like people could be like, here's a bra. Like, what have no?
SPEAKER_01I'm telling you, not important across the street, right? Like she came in with a with a like a she brought me a purse at Target. And so I she I remember her texting me and being like, what kind of bra and underwear? I'm like, just get whatever you can find, right?
SPEAKER_04Like um, because that's just one of the things, like a bra size, like you're gonna wear it.
SPEAKER_05Your face wash and your moisturizer and just the little things, you know, that women wearing.
SPEAKER_01Um, actually, you said that I remember it was my friend Rachel who had given this Rodanne Fields toiletry kit that ended up in my in the stuff that was donated to me. And I was like, oh, thank God for some mysterious face cream. Because you're not thinking I need to go buy my my expensive face cream. You're like, I don't care what I'm putting on right now. Like, no, really. My face still has soot all over it. Um, you know, but uh in terms of what else I would tell people, my therapist told me that more and more research, and I'm gonna botch this, but that more and more research indicates that the sooner you can begin to seek therapy after a traumatic event, the sooner your brain can start to open new pathways from that event. So, like we all suffered from PTSD terribly. For years, my kids' schools had to let us know when there was gonna be a fire drill. And they knew that I needed to know that, and the kids needed to know that. And so they would whisper to the kids, there's gonna be a fire drill today, but I knew about it the day before. So there were things that we put in place to help help. But but you wouldn't even believe me if I told you this. I'm gonna tell you this. But when we were in the hotel, we had two nights in the hotel that the fire alarm went off, guys.
SPEAKER_05Oh my god.
SPEAKER_01Two, where we had to evacuate the hotel with our kids. I cannot even begin to tell you how angry and just like vile the anger was that I had for that hotel that we had to go through that because they didn't know what our kids were called, like what that was doing to them and their bodies. And so the sooner that you can start to open up new pathways from trauma, the better. And from what Sam was telling me that with kids, it's crucial. Um, you can really change, you can really change their brains and stop PTSD dead in its tracks if you can get that, if you can get something to help them. And so incredible. And it is. Um, but you also have to be, you know, the reality of it is that's a first world problem too, right? Like it's not something that everyone has access to, that is for sure. But if you do, if you can, then you should. And for adults too, like, right? Yeah, it it's never too late.
SPEAKER_04Never. Yeah, absolutely. It's incredible also because you can do the online stuff. I've I've been working with an online and it's 80 bucks flat, no insurance. I mean, not cheap, not cheap. That's a lot of money to me, but but it's worth it. Right.
SPEAKER_01So it is. Um, and then yeah, just I guess surround yourself with people that uh not a lot of people uh would have something like this happen to them in a community that was so supportive. We were so lucky. Uh, we moved back into this house, and our best friends showed up unannounced to stock our bar, you know, like things that just like you wouldn't even believe with rock's glasses with our names on them and they stalked our whole, you know, like like they just stormed it, like they came in marching in with marching orders, carrying the basket. And like we were just so freaking lucky, and we're so lucky too, because we're we didn't belong to a church. We you know, we're not uh we didn't have like groups that we were uh uh but but we had our people and our people here really supported us a community. So yeah, right, and but not everybody has that. Um I think about people that stuff like this happens to and they probably don't know what where to turn. Um it's hard to talk about it with even your friends in your community because you just don't want to sound like a broken record forever of the fire, the fire, you know, yeah. And and we had help. So I just I I really do. I feel for people that go through anything like this.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. I can't imagine. So how are you guys these days? You know, do you have moments I'm curious where you just have flashbacks and like panic attacks from time to time? Because I do. Yes.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. What I mentioned earlier about going down the stairs and seeing fire. It took years for that to minimize. Um yesterday I was in this house, and with every corner I turned, I was like, oh my god, oh my god. You know, like you can't unsee it. Um yeah, I do. We do, we do. Um, and then just again, like moments of doubt, of self-doubt of like, why did I do it that way? And why did I not beat my insurance company up more? And and why did I allow this to happen and this to happen? And we lost so much money of our own personal money. And but we're here.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And so that's what keeps us coming back to like, oh my God, we're all here. And our kids have such wild imaginations too, right? Like they remember it and they also have like vivid memories and also like different memories that we're like, no. But like as they get older, they're growing into our oldest Fisher. Fisher likes to come down and talk our ear off at like 10 o'clock every night. It's the joy of having a 16-year-old. Oh, right. And he's a talker and he's also he's hilarious. Um, like absolutely hysterical. And but I went to bed and he came down and he at some point it came up, maybe because I'm talking to you guys, but or the fact that it the fire is on all of our brains, whether we want it to or not. Um, just that like telling Paul, like, no, you guys did ever like you did so great. Like how he remembered it was like us taking care of him and us getting him and his brothers to his best friend's house up the street, which I had held on to guilt about for a long time because they needed to go somewhere. And I didn't have family here. So where do you put your kids? Right. And they're there. And the whole time they're at this house, I am like, I don't what's the word I'm looking for? Where you're somewhere, but you're really somewhere. I was like dying inside that I wasn't with them every second of this. Of course.
SPEAKER_06Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_01These hours that we were sitting trying to figure out where we're gonna go, and Martha helping us figure out where we're gonna sleep and all that. But to him, turns out it was the best thing ever because yeah, the the family, the earth lease, well man, they entertained them. They got them lunch, they did things, they sh, you know, they stepped in and took their mind off of everything that was going on. And and to hear that, you're like, okay, all right, maybe he won't be in therapy forever. I did something right.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um yeah. And then like I said, you see these videos of them in the house and they're like doing a house tour, like they're on MTV cribs, you know, showing people, showing their followers. It's exactly though Lord. This is this is where the magic happens. No, it doesn't.
SPEAKER_05You know. If you mean magic that card game, then yeah, you're right. Spot on there.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. Um and and we talk about it. I I try so hard not to bring it up because I don't want it, I don't want to induce unnecessary. I don't want to put, I don't want to imprint memories or trauma on them that doesn't need to be. Um because on every level, they each of them had PTSD. Uh, they on some levels still do, um, just at different degrees, right? And we're all on like a different timeline continuum of how that how we move on and how it affects us. Yeah. And it can change like that.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. And it's hard not to have a traumatic experience kind of define you in a way as you progress out of that. Um I I know some cancer survivors who that's the first thing they say when they meet you, or it comes up in conversation. And here I am talking about it. It comes up almost on every episode we have.
SPEAKER_04As it should.
SPEAKER_05But yeah, I try and every day I'm like, I don't want this to define who I am as a person. But it has because I am a completely different person now because of that experience. But I try and look at it try and find the positive moments of it that I can have define me as opposed to some of the awful negative that happened for that. And that will always be there. Um, those panic attacks. And same here, it was this time of year, it was maybe exactly four years ago today or something that I was diagnosed. Um, actually, no, it's coming up on Wednesday, I think. So yeah, it it's there, but I I try and look for the positive so that I don't let the negative define me. 100%. It's hard. It's hard.
SPEAKER_01There's always, I'm sure, before cancer and after.
SPEAKER_05Yep.
SPEAKER_01For us, it's like before the fire. Yeah, we're always like, oh yeah, before the fire or you know, BF. Um 100%. It definitely define it, it definitely changed our lives. Period. We would not be the same people had that not happened to us.
SPEAKER_06Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01And I think God, if I could just take the trauma out of it and keep all the good stuff that it that it helped us become, I would, right? Like I wouldn't go, I would never take it back. I would not go through that again for anything. But I I can see how it brought us closer as a family. How it changed us, I don't know, I can't put it into words. But you uh having gone through that too, it that there's you're different, right? You'll always be different because of it.
SPEAKER_05I'll always be different because of it. I it's changed my outlook on life completely. How I move about the world, what matters to me, what doesn't matter to me anymore. Um, the people I want to surround myself, just the life that I've built for myself afterward. And I know it doesn't look that amazing to certain people in my life. You know, they question my choices and what I do, and I'm like, yeah, but this makes me happy now. Like I didn't experience as much of this before, and I wasn't happy. If I I'm just trying to find all the little things now that I'm like, this makes me happy. I don't want to do anything else. Why would I want to go do something that I don't want to do?
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. I I know myself more. I know what I want. And and I'm not afraid to say that anymore. It's like, no, I don't want to do that.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_05That's so empowering won't make me happy tonight.
SPEAKER_04So empowering. I love you. It really is. It's just like, no, I'm not doing it.
SPEAKER_05I know. Somebody recently called me. They were like, she's very direct. And I'm like, I never used to be very direct.
SPEAKER_04I am now. It's so fun. It's so easy. You just say, I love you. It's great.
SPEAKER_01No, I'm not gonna have that in my life right now.
SPEAKER_04I don't want to. Period. That's all. I don't want to.
SPEAKER_05Yep.
SPEAKER_04Wow. Ladies. Oh power.
SPEAKER_05Well, JQ, do you have any other tidbits of advice for people or things that you've walked away with that you want to share? And if not, that's fine.
SPEAKER_01There's definitely those tiny reminders of who embraced you and who touched you. And we might not be friends forever, but I'll never forget that that person reached out or walked into my house with with a gift card, couldn't look me in the face, but was like, here, please take this for your family. You know, like um and when I think about the like tragedy happens to other people, I know it's really hard to talk about it with people or you know, you don't know what to say to people. And I don't think you have to say anything necessarily. You just show up in the way that you can. Show up.
SPEAKER_05That's it.
SPEAKER_01Show up in the way. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05And show up how you can.
SPEAKER_01Who was I? Was it a podcast? I don't know where I heard this. I'm definitely stealing it from someone. But it was talking about um like uh and and my friend, uh one of my best friends growing up, lost her husband a few years ago. Um, and tragically, and I remember her talking to me about how like people showed up really heavily right when it happened, and then and then they weren't there, you know, it just the people stop, right? Because they don't know what to say. And like that, what happened to her, I unequivocal, right? Like I and so, but then I think I'm like, oh my God, I haven't reached out to her and asked her how she's doing. Yeah, I have put it in a box and walked away. And I what I saw was like, you know, you don't have to have like the perfect text message, you know, like, hey, I'm thinking about you, and or here, I bought you a cup of coffee, or have, you know, something delivered to them. I just there are a million different ways that you can tell somebody that you're thinking about them and you know you see them without it having to be like this conversation where you're like I'm doing right now. You're not bleh at all.
SPEAKER_05I think you heard that on this podcast. That's right. You probably heard it from us. I think I did. Because I know I mentioned that in our cancer episode.
SPEAKER_04Oh, I was kidding. I was like, yeah, of course it came from us because we're the best.
SPEAKER_05No, no, no. It rang true. And you know, I'm sure many, many people have said it because people showed up at them at the get-go, and then as soon as I started chemo, they just trickled off. And by the time I was done with treatments, no one was around anymore. And that's when I needed people the most. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04The recovery part was the hardest part.
SPEAKER_05The recovery part was the hardest part. And if it weren't for Courtney here, but getting me in, she got me into a support group, and it didn't even dawn on me that I should be in a support group, but she found it. She signed me up and she got me going.
SPEAKER_01You were making different plans for yourself.
SPEAKER_05I was making, yes. I was not planning to be here.
SPEAKER_01You had other things going on.
SPEAKER_05Yes. I was in the group. And very pro support groups. Yeah. I was it was going through a very dark time and um no one could pull me out of that. But I put one foot in front of the other for a good year. Yeah. In order to make it happen. So Yeah. Um well, real quick, Jen, recently or any time in your life, what's one of the nicest things somebody has ever done for you?
SPEAKER_04Not related to the fire. Let's let's go outside of the fire because that's a hard one, you guys.
SPEAKER_01Um my husband had um Sugarshack Donuts delivered here on Valentine's Day. By the way, he was in Australia for his new job. And I Oh my God.
SPEAKER_02I was like, what?
SPEAKER_01I mean, honestly, it like I was like, well done, Paul Howell. That's incredible. You nailed it because Valentine's Day is not his four. It is not a good, right? Like the stars do not usually align. Um so I mean, that's Valentine's Day, so it doesn't really count.
SPEAKER_04But like Yes, it does.
SPEAKER_01It does.
SPEAKER_04Yes, it does. Especially that it's not like something random, like a bear from CVS. Right? Freaking donuts from and it's called Sugar Shack. Shake Shack.
SPEAKER_01Sugar Shack. Sugarshake.
SPEAKER_04Why do I not know this? Sugar Shack Donuts.
SPEAKER_01Well, next time you make your way to Richmond, you make sure you get yourself a sugar shack.
SPEAKER_04Oh, that was in Richmond. Gotcha. Oh, I see.
SPEAKER_01Okay, gotcha. You're in Richmond. Um yes, it is here in Richmond.
SPEAKER_03Got it.
SPEAKER_01In this case, she's like, I guess we're right next door.
SPEAKER_03I know.
SPEAKER_04It's like, I feel like I could touch your face. It's right.
SPEAKER_01Um, gosh, that's a really hard question. And I'm gonna think of a million things after we talk. Because I feel like people do nice things, especially for me and the kids and for Paul. I feel like we have received a lot of uh just nice things over.
SPEAKER_04That's why we had to go outside of the fire, because outside of the fire, people still do nice things. And yeah, you know, like yeah, they do. It's little, little things that are just what life is about. I had a I had a neighbor once, I we didn't communicate, her and I, we didn't know each other. And I went outside and she had covered my window when it was raining with a plastic bag. And I could I think I sobbed. I think I was in a moment of my life where I was just like having a hard time, and I was like, oh like you know, my piece of shit car is gonna not be full of water. So it was so sweet. So little stuff like that. Like, yeah. And she, and I even thanked her and she was like, Oh yeah, I figured you probably didn't want rain in your car. I was like, you're right.
SPEAKER_01No, it is, it's little things. Like I the two of the gals that are on my team, Logan and Trisha at work at Virginia Tech, they're like infamous for just like sending the kind text messages, like right when you need it. Like we don't get to see each other very often and we work remotely from each other, and yet we're like in sync so often. And though that is always really touching to me too. Gosh, friends. Uh, my good girlfriends in the neighborhood um had a tradition where they would take it, it was the we call it chicken wine. It's the rose wine that's like $6.99 with the chicken on the front of it. Do you know what I'm talking about? I know exactly. So good. Um and they write all these like amazing things about you. Um give it to you on your birthday. And um, that was my birthday present this year or last year actually. Um, but I have it, it's uh sitting on my on a table. And I like, you know, it's coveted.
SPEAKER_05Like Yeah.
SPEAKER_01It's it's it's an art piece now.
SPEAKER_05Oh thank you for sharing your story too.
SPEAKER_04Wonderful. This was powerful. Hope I literally held my breath through like half of it.
SPEAKER_05I was like, Oh, you guys. I hope this didn't um overwhelm you or stress you out in any way and that you can walk. No, actually. Maybe go for a walk after this and yeah. Feel feel through this and that maybe maybe it's good. You guys can sit down at dinner tonight or something and talk through stuff and just start ripping that bag.
SPEAKER_01Well, it's rare that I just get to just be able to do that. I mean, Paul and I have talked about an ad nauseum to each other. Of course. But like to just like sit with women and actually just talk about it. Yeah. Is uh it's therapy.
SPEAKER_05So maybe instead of every year like it bubbling up for each one of you, maybe you need to sit down on a dedicated day and with the family and be like, we have an hour to talk about the fire and then and that's it.
SPEAKER_01Uh yes. I think that's actually a really great idea. Um I just had a another thought of something that somebody did that was really kind for me. And I'm gonna talk about it because it was Emily. Um I got the I got to come to Seattle a couple summers ago. I can't believe it's already been like a year and a half or whatever. Yes for work. And it was like this wham bam, thank you, man, work trip. And Emily took me to like one of what was now my favorite basically field trip I've ever been on in my entire life, where I recorded countless hours of salmon trying to swim upstream at the locks. And I have told every single person that I know about it. I sent those videos to my friends who were also now like engaged and want to know what happened to the salmon. And she like, I just it was I hadn't seen Emily, I hadn't seen you in years. And you were like, let's go, let's have lunch, and I want to take you somewhere and show you this cool thing while you're here.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And it was like we hadn't seen each other, it was like we picked right up where we left off, which was yeah, insane. Um, and I just got to see this like really cool thing that no one that no one gets to see that doesn't live there. Um it's true. So freaking cool. Come to Seattle, and it was kind of life changing, honestly. What's that?
SPEAKER_05Oh, that's fun, life-changing. Yeah, it really was.
SPEAKER_01Animals will do that for you. Well, not just that animal, you. I walked away from that. Yeah, I was like, God, what I'm so glad that I just got to have that. Like that. So cool. You know, we were talking earlier about like friendships and how like, you know, you you look back on people that you knew at a certain point, and I just I'm so glad that we got to reconnect in culinary school with Emily was a freaking blast, you guys. Yeah, so fun.
SPEAKER_04Wow, you knew the the chef Emily. That's amazing. I do.
SPEAKER_05We both used to be chefs, and then we were like, nope. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04But you took those lessons and that knowledge, and you continue to use it elsewhere, I'm sure.
SPEAKER_05Oh, I do apply those skills. Pardon me. Not not like the knife skills or the actual cooking skills, but so many of the other skills like logistics and the mise and plas, like the get the prep and everything.
SPEAKER_06And cleaning.
SPEAKER_05And the cleaning every single day of my life do I apply that. My boyfriend thinks I am crazy. I'm like, did you put that in the dishwasher? You didn't love that. Did you climb that? I'm like, let's go, let's go, let's go, let's go, let's go. Yeah, the kitchen has to be the cleanest room in the house next to the bathroom. Amen. Come, thank you for coming to my TED Talk.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Oh, I'm with you.
SPEAKER_04I'm with you. Wow. Well, ladies, I've really thoroughly enjoyed this. This has been powerful stuff. Be the good, man.
SPEAKER_05Thank you so much. Both of you. Yeah. If you have any questions for Jen, please reach out to us. You can find us through our email at that wasn't the plan pod at gmail.com or our website at that wasn't the plan.com or on social media. Thank you, Jen. Thank you, Courtney. Thank you, Jen.
SPEAKER_01This is just so cool. I thought of something. Sorry, I'm blowing this in at the very last second. You thought of what I would say to someone. Um, I would say if you see on the news that or you know a family that is affected by a fire or something that has removed them from their home, to take inventory of their kids and just to go and collect a few things that they might need. The seasonal wares, just a couple, a sweatshirt for the kids, anything that you can just put in a bag and drop off. Um, and they will appreciate it more than you could ever even imagine. So that's cool. I just wanted to say that. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_04Be the good in in someone else's.
SPEAKER_01You don't have to cut right. You don't have to come at them with a case, a suitcase of clothes, a couple of things.
SPEAKER_05And that will be like it wouldn't have to be anybody you know either. Just no, no, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. That's lovely advice. Thank you for sharing. And on that note, thank you for everybody listening. Please follow us, subscribe, and give us five stars. We like those five stars. And we'll talk to you next week. Woo! Okay, bye. Bye, ladies. Thanks for listening to That Wasn't the Plan. If you found it helpful or at least mildly entertaining, a quick grading review and a click on the subscribe button would be lovely. And it genuinely helps us. And if a friend comes to mind, please share. Until next time. Bye.
